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How and why did the SEC select Arkansas and S. Carolina?
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:35 am
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:35 am
For those of us too young to remember.
Any why did the SWC collapse?
Any why did the SWC collapse?
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:44 am to GeorgeTheGreek
Here's my recollection.
Roy Kramer found a rule in the NCAA rules that stated that a conference with 12 teams could stage a championship game. This rule predated the 12-team SEC. So he set out to add 2 teams to the SEC.
The original targets were Texas and Texas A&M. But political pressures - the governor of Texas at the time, Ann Richards, insisted that Baylor get to go wherever the two big state schools went, or their funding might be in jeopardy - stymied that move. Texas and A&M also flirted with the Pac-10 around this time. Sensing the opportunity, Frank Broyles inserted Arkansas into that position. At the time, Arkansas was one of the two dominant teams in the SWC, along with A&M.
Seeking to fill out the 12, the SEC reached out to independant Florida State. But at the same time, the ACC, then at 8 members, saw the opportunity to gain a little football prestige and offered them at the same time. They opted for the lesser competition of the ACC, where they would go on to win all but one of their conference games for the first nine years or something absurd like that b
Still in need of a 12th team, the SEC took the next, closest, State univeristy, South Carolina. Almost by default.
Anyone else have a different recollection?
Roy Kramer found a rule in the NCAA rules that stated that a conference with 12 teams could stage a championship game. This rule predated the 12-team SEC. So he set out to add 2 teams to the SEC.
The original targets were Texas and Texas A&M. But political pressures - the governor of Texas at the time, Ann Richards, insisted that Baylor get to go wherever the two big state schools went, or their funding might be in jeopardy - stymied that move. Texas and A&M also flirted with the Pac-10 around this time. Sensing the opportunity, Frank Broyles inserted Arkansas into that position. At the time, Arkansas was one of the two dominant teams in the SWC, along with A&M.
Seeking to fill out the 12, the SEC reached out to independant Florida State. But at the same time, the ACC, then at 8 members, saw the opportunity to gain a little football prestige and offered them at the same time. They opted for the lesser competition of the ACC, where they would go on to win all but one of their conference games for the first nine years or something absurd like that b
Still in need of a 12th team, the SEC took the next, closest, State univeristy, South Carolina. Almost by default.
Anyone else have a different recollection?
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:49 am to Tiger Phil
That pretty much covers the SEC side of things.
The SWC side of things is that the conference was a recruiting-violations arms race during the 70s and 80s, with the big "oh shite" moment being SMU getting whacked with the death penalty circa 1986-1987 after getting caught paying players from a slush fund for the second time in a short span.
Between that and about half the conference being on probation for a number of years, programs with some name recognition like Texas, A&M, and Arkansas started looking for the door.
The SWC side of things is that the conference was a recruiting-violations arms race during the 70s and 80s, with the big "oh shite" moment being SMU getting whacked with the death penalty circa 1986-1987 after getting caught paying players from a slush fund for the second time in a short span.
Between that and about half the conference being on probation for a number of years, programs with some name recognition like Texas, A&M, and Arkansas started looking for the door.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:50 am to Tiger Phil
That's right but you have a little bit of it wrong.
The "Baylor" pressure by Ann Richards was applied when The Big 12 was formed as they weren't any more viable than Houston or SMU in reality.
The pressure about leaving the SWC was more about ALL of the Texas schools knowing they'd be screwed if/when Texas and A&M left.
Arkansas had flirted with the Big 8 years before and we were looking to get out if any opportunity came up.
The "Baylor" pressure by Ann Richards was applied when The Big 12 was formed as they weren't any more viable than Houston or SMU in reality.
The pressure about leaving the SWC was more about ALL of the Texas schools knowing they'd be screwed if/when Texas and A&M left.
Arkansas had flirted with the Big 8 years before and we were looking to get out if any opportunity came up.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:53 am to teke184
Arkansas was only one of two SWC schools who didn't get written up for violations.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 9:54 am to teke184
You guys covered that pretty well. The FSU decision was made mostly on the input of Bowden. He came out and said that in the SEC, FSU would be an also ran due to competition, whereas in the ACC, they could dominate and actually build a national championship caliber program.
People often say Bowden should have come to the SEC, but I would say he was a freaking prophet.
People often say Bowden should have come to the SEC, but I would say he was a freaking prophet.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:00 am to Tiger Phil
The SWC broke up because they were overcome by competitive greed. Almost all of the 8 remaining schools were placed on probation at some point in the 80s. SMU, of course, received the legendary "Death Penalty". And much of the cheating was revealed to the media and NCAA by their rival schools!
They had weakened themselves so much that Texas and Texas A&M wanted out. The Big 8, seeing the success that the SEC experienced with it's championship game, wanted to add 4 teams. These two desires led to UT, A&M and TT being drawn to the expanded Big 8. If the moves had happened five years previous, during the height of the Jack Pardee, Andre Ware years, Houston would have been the no-brainer fourth team. However, Pardee's successor, John Jenkins, absolutely destroyed the program. I mean obliterated it. Stepping into the gap was Baylor, championed by then-governor Anne Richards, a proud Baylor graduate. As I mentiioned earlier, she threatened to adjust the funding (do a wikipedia search for Permanent University Fund) for the state schools if her little private school wasn't brought along.
So there you go. The death of the SWC and the birth of the Big XII.
They had weakened themselves so much that Texas and Texas A&M wanted out. The Big 8, seeing the success that the SEC experienced with it's championship game, wanted to add 4 teams. These two desires led to UT, A&M and TT being drawn to the expanded Big 8. If the moves had happened five years previous, during the height of the Jack Pardee, Andre Ware years, Houston would have been the no-brainer fourth team. However, Pardee's successor, John Jenkins, absolutely destroyed the program. I mean obliterated it. Stepping into the gap was Baylor, championed by then-governor Anne Richards, a proud Baylor graduate. As I mentiioned earlier, she threatened to adjust the funding (do a wikipedia search for Permanent University Fund) for the state schools if her little private school wasn't brought along.
So there you go. The death of the SWC and the birth of the Big XII.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:07 am to GeorgeTheGreek
Cool. I appreciate it fellas. Thanks.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:13 am to Tiger Phil
quote:
Anyone else have a different recollection?
Just to add a tidbit, right before the SWC imploded, they reached out to LSU and I believe there was one other school, (can't remember who) to join, but of course, LSU had no interest, for good reason...
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:26 am to Tiger in Texas
Yeah. It's fun to think about the relative innocence of those days. All the SEC wanted was to be able to stage an extra game.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:32 am to GeorgeTheGreek
The way I remember it, the SEC wanted to add two teams for the above mentioned reasons. First choice was Texas in the west and South Carolina in the east. The Texas legislature threatened to cut off funding to Texas unless Texas A&M was also included in the deal, so the deal fell through. Arkansas was added instead to achieve the desired twelve members.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:35 am to Tiger Phil
One thing I do remember was that when all the talk started Tulane did apply to be readmitted to the SEC. 
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:42 am to Tiger in Texas
quote:
Just to add a tidbit, right before the SWC imploded, they reached out to LSU and I believe there was one other school, (can't remember who) to join, but of course, LSU had no interest, for good reason...
I think they reached out to LSU and Ole Miss at one time.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:53 am to wmr
quote:The Hogs IMO should have gone to the Big 12.
Arkansas had flirted with the Big 8 years before and we were looking to get out if any opportunity came up.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:56 am to Rockerbraves
re: How and why did the SEC select Arkansas and S. Carolina?
I think that they wanted a National Championship in Basketball at the time. Arkansas for the 15th time would not have been invited to the Big 12. We would have been independent or in Conference USA.
I think that they wanted a National Championship in Basketball at the time. Arkansas for the 15th time would not have been invited to the Big 12. We would have been independent or in Conference USA.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 10:59 am to HawgAlude
Just seems if I were an Arkansas fan I would miss alot of those Texas rivals.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:04 am to Tawanda
quote:
First choice was Texas in the west and South Carolina in the east.
South Carolina was a back-up plan. They have never been anyone's 1st choice (except maybe Brad Scott).
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:11 am to BhamTigah
Broyles was the mastermind in the SWC.
Quit acting like we were an afterthought for an SEC bid. You guys are not only wrong but completely uninformed re: Frank Broyles' pull 20 years ago.
Can't speak for USCe though
Quit acting like we were an afterthought for an SEC bid. You guys are not only wrong but completely uninformed re: Frank Broyles' pull 20 years ago.
Can't speak for USCe though
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:15 am to DocHog
quote:
Broyles was the mastermind in the SWC.
Quit acting like we were an afterthought for an SEC bid.
I didn't say anything about the piggies.
Posted on 6/11/10 at 11:16 am to BhamTigah
quote:
He came out and said that in the SEC, FSU would be an also ran due to competition, whereas in the ACC, they could dominate and actually build a national championship caliber program.
They were a NC caliber program before they joined the ACC.
Florida dominated the SEC during the 90's? Florida State was 6-3-1 in regular season, 1-1 in bowls against Florida. No way they run off 14 strait 11 win, top 4 seasons in the SEC, but no way are they a "also ran" in the SEC during that time either.
This post was edited on 6/11/10 at 12:20 pm
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