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Thoughts on the West Coast offense?
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:55 pm
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:55 pm
A couple of posts here saying O tasked Ensminger/Sullivan to learn and develop a west coast offense a la O's wet dream USC days.
Isn't the WCO, not only dated but notoriously difficult for college players to master? Relies on quick timing routes and the QB anticipating where the WRs will be. Not to mention were going to ask Ensminger to master the intricacies and somehow teach the system to players in 8 months time?
This is gonna go well.
Isn't the WCO, not only dated but notoriously difficult for college players to master? Relies on quick timing routes and the QB anticipating where the WRs will be. Not to mention were going to ask Ensminger to master the intricacies and somehow teach the system to players in 8 months time?
This is gonna go well.
6
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:56 pm to Lsuhoohoo
quote:
A couple of posts here saying O tasked Ensminger/Sullivan to learn and develop a west coast offense a la O's wet dream USC days.
Yeah, counting on a few coaches at the end of their careers to run an offense that they've never run before? What could go wrong?
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:56 pm to Lsuhoohoo
Being that LA and lsu is so loaded with accurate pocket passers, it's perfect.
Said no one ever.
This state is built to run a briles/Gilbert offense
Said no one ever.
This state is built to run a briles/Gilbert offense
This post was edited on 1/7/18 at 11:57 pm
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:59 pm to SportTiger1
I have faith in Brennan somewhat but the WCO chews up dumb WRs
Remember ochocinco in NE? He couldn’t get on the field
Remember ochocinco in NE? He couldn’t get on the field
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:01 am to Lsuhoohoo
Al Borges?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:01 am to Lsuhoohoo
Brennan is made for the West coast O. Let’s see if we can get someone in place to actually develop him.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:02 am to supatigah
The system counts on accuracy right? WRs and QBs have to be on the same page and anticipate each others next move? QB throws the ball to a spot before his receiver comes out of his break and he's counting on his receiver being there.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:06 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:02 am to supatigah
Brennan is literally the only part of this team who MIGHT fit in a WC offense. And who knows if he's going to work out.
Teams are going to spread football because it's easier to teach and recruit. What we need is to get more complicated.
Teams are going to spread football because it's easier to teach and recruit. What we need is to get more complicated.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:07 am to Lsuhoohoo
Right lots of timing stuff and defensive reads by QB/WRs
Three WRs with a TE, Slot guy is the chain mover. Lots of quick lateral throws, occasional TE seam throws, heavy on three step and five step throw
20 hour rule and HS spreads have killed the WCO in college, QBs are always in shotgun in HS
Three WRs with a TE, Slot guy is the chain mover. Lots of quick lateral throws, occasional TE seam throws, heavy on three step and five step throw
20 hour rule and HS spreads have killed the WCO in college, QBs are always in shotgun in HS
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:10 am to SportTiger1
Steep learning curve for Brennan with a good/great OL and questions at WR and RB
Plus almost everything Brennan learned from Canada is tossed out and starts over
At least Canada had him under center all year, so that is good
Plus almost everything Brennan learned from Canada is tossed out and starts over
At least Canada had him under center all year, so that is good
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:13 am to Lsuhoohoo
1988 wants its offense back.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:16 am to supatigah
It seems like a complex system that relies on a lot of good decision making from college players. I guess that's why it's not run as much in college anymore.
What concerns me is that we wouldn't be implementing it with a guy who knows the ins and outs, anticipates and corrects potential mistakes or tailor fits the system around his players strengths. Right if a coach knows that system well, he can have a vision of which plays may or not work with a player. He's seen it. We'd be asking Ensminger to learn it all in a few months and impart his knowledge into the players.
What concerns me is that we wouldn't be implementing it with a guy who knows the ins and outs, anticipates and corrects potential mistakes or tailor fits the system around his players strengths. Right if a coach knows that system well, he can have a vision of which plays may or not work with a player. He's seen it. We'd be asking Ensminger to learn it all in a few months and impart his knowledge into the players.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:25 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:17 am to Lsuhoohoo
Exactly. Its ridiculous, even if we DID have the players for it, which we don't.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:25 am to SportTiger1
Kiffin learned the offense from Gruden and Chow but as I said when he went to bama he implemented power spread. I don’t know what he did at FAU but I doubt he went back to WC with briles on staff
To try to indirectly copy that USC offense at LSU is crazy unless you have a disciple on staff that believes in it and can teach it. Not to mention how much the offensive environment in HS has changed and that is where you are recruiting from
To try to indirectly copy that USC offense at LSU is crazy unless you have a disciple on staff that believes in it and can teach it. Not to mention how much the offensive environment in HS has changed and that is where you are recruiting from
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:26 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:32 am to Lsuhoohoo
You gotta have pristine route runners as WR that can read a secondary to able to run this offense. For QBs it’s very difficult. I remember hearing Brett Hundley talk about this season how it took him a week just master the 3 step/5-step/7-step dropbacks in Green Bay. Each of those coincides with different route concepts. It’s hard, but simple once you’ve mastered the nuances
Point is timing is EVERYTHING in the West Coast
Point is timing is EVERYTHING in the West Coast
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:35 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:35 am to Fus0623
No sweat for a 60 yr old and 73 year old to put this in with 20 hrs a week with players though because they are so EXPERIENCED
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:36 am to supatigah
quote:
Remember ochocinco in NE? He couldn’t get on the field
Dont think NE runs the WCO
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:42 am to dbuchanon
Yes they do. Why you think Brady is still thriving? He’s throwing short to intermediate passes with built in Option routes for the receivers. Guys like Welker, Amendola, Edelman, now Cooks are exceptional route runners. He really doesn’t have to use his arm
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:57 am to Fus0623
NFL teams that used the West Coast offense[edit]
Start End Team Head coach Offensive coordinator
1979 1988 San Francisco 49ers Bill Walsh
1984 1991 Cincinnati Bengals Sam Wyche Bruce Coslet
1988 — Los Angeles Raiders Mike Shanahan
1989 — Cleveland Browns Bud Carson Marc Trestman
1989 1996 San Francisco 49ers George Seifert Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, and Marc Trestman
1990 1993 New York Jets Bruce Coslet
1992 1998 Green Bay Packers Mike Holmgren Sherman Lewis
1992 2001 Minnesota Vikings Dennis Green Jack Burns, Brian Billick, Ray Sherman, and Sherman Lewis
1992 1995 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Sam Wyche
1993 1996 Chicago Bears Dave Wannstedt Ron Turner
1993 1994 Denver Broncos Wade Phillips Jim Fassel
1993 1997 Kansas City Chiefs Marty Schottenheimer Paul Hackett
1995 2008 Denver Broncos Mike Shanahan Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison
1995 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Ray Rhodes Jon Gruden
1996 — Arizona Cardinals Vince Tobin Jim Fassel
1997 1999 Cincinnati Bengals Bruce Coslet Ken Anderson
1997 2003 New York Giants Jim Fassel Jim Skipper and Sean Payton
1997 2002 San Francisco 49ers Steve Mariucci Marty Mornhinweg and Greg Knapp
1998 2000 Arizona Cardinals Vince Tobin Marc Trestman
1998 — Carolina Panthers Dom Capers Gil Haskell
1998 2001 Oakland Raiders Jon Gruden Bill Callahan
1999 2007 Baltimore Ravens Brian Billick Matt Cavanaugh, Jim Fassel, and Rick Neuheisel
1999 — Carolina Panthers George Seifert Gil Haskell
1999 2012 Philadelphia Eagles Andy Reid Rod Dowhower, Brad Childress and Marty Mornhinweg
1999 2008 Seattle Seahawks Mike Holmgren Mike Sherman and Gil Haskell
2000 2005 Green Bay Packers Mike Sherman Tom Rossley
2000 2004 New Orleans Saints Jim Haslett Mike McCarthy
2000 2010 Tennessee Titans Jeff Fisher Mike Heimerdinger and Norm Chow
2001 2002 Detroit Lions Marty Mornhinweg Maurice Carthon
2001 2005 New York Jets Herman Edwards Paul Hackett and Mike Heimerdinger
2002 — Dallas Cowboys Dave Campo Bruce Coslet
2002 2003 Oakland Raiders Bill Callahan Marc Trestman
2002 2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Jon Gruden Bill Muir
2003 2005 Detroit Lions Steve Mariucci Sherman Lewis, Greg Olson, and Ted Tollner
2003 2004 Jacksonville Jaguars Jack Del Rio Bill Musgrave
2004 2006 Arizona Cardinals Dennis Green Alex Wood, Keith Rowen, and Mike Kruczek
2004 2006 Atlanta Falcons Jim L. Mora Greg Knapp
2005 2009 Chicago Bears Lovie Smith Ron Turner
2005 — San Francisco 49ers Mike Nolan Mike McCarthy
2006 present Green Bay Packers Mike McCarthy Jeff Jagodzinski, Joe Philbin, Tom Clements, and Edgar Bennett
2006 2013 Houston Texans Gary Kubiak Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, Kyle Shanahan, and Rick Dennison
2006 2007 Kansas City Chiefs Herman Edwards Mike Solari
2006 2010 Minnesota Vikings Brad Childress Darrell Bevell
2007 — Atlanta Falcons Bobby Petrino Hue Jackson
2007 2008 Oakland Raiders Lane Kiffin Greg Knapp
2007 — San Francisco 49ers Mike Nolan Jim Hostler
2008 2009 Buffalo Bills Dick Jauron Turk Schonert and Alex Van Pelt
2008 — Detroit Lions Rod Marinelli Jim Colletto
2008 2010 Oakland Raiders Tom Cable Greg Knapp and Hue Jackson
2008 2009 Washington Redskins Jim Zorn Sherman Smith
2009 2010 St. Louis Rams Steve Spagnuolo Pat Shurmur
2009 — Seattle Seahawks Jim L. Mora Greg Knapp
2009 2011 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Raheem Morris Greg Olson
2010 present Seattle Seahawks Pete Carroll Jeremy Bates and Darrell Bevell
2010 2013 Washington Redskins Mike Shanahan Kyle Shanahan
2011 present Cincinnati Bengals Marvin Lewis Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson
2011 2012 Cleveland Browns Pat Shurmur Brad Childress
2011 2012 Denver Broncos John Fox Mike McCoy
2011 2013 Minnesota Vikings Leslie Frazier Bill Musgrave
2011 — Oakland Raiders Hue Jackson Al Saunders
2011 2014 San Francisco 49ers Jim Harbaugh Greg Roman
2012 2013 Miami Dolphins Joe Philbin Mike Sherman
2012 2014 Oakland Raiders Dennis Allen Greg Knapp and Greg Olson
2013 2014 Chicago Bears Marc Trestman Aaron Kromer
2013 2014 New York Jets Rex Ryan Marty Mornhinweg
2014 — Oakland Raiders Tony Sparano Greg Olson
2014 2015 Cleveland Browns Mike Pettine Kyle Shanahan and John DeFilippo
2014 2015 New York Giants Tom Coughlin Ben McAdoo
2015 — San Francisco 49ers Jim Tomsula Geep Chryst
2013 present Indianapolis Colts Chuck Pagano Pep Hamilton and Rob Chudzinski
2013 present Jacksonville Jaguars Gus Bradley Jedd Fisch and Greg Olson
2013 present Kansas City Chiefs Andy Reid Doug Pederson, Brad Childress, and Matt Nagy
2014 present Baltimore Ravens John Harbaugh Gary Kubiak and Marc Trestman
2014 2016 Washington Redskins Jay Gruden Sean McVay
2015 present Atlanta Falcons Dan Quinn Kyle Shanahan, Steve Sarkisian
2015 2016 Buffalo Bills Rex Ryan Greg Roman
2015 2016 Denver Broncos Gary Kubiak Rick Dennison
2015 present Oakland Raiders Jack Del Rio Bill Musgrave
2016 present New York Giants Ben McAdoo Mike Sullivan
2016 present Minnesota Vikings Mike Zimmer Pat Shurmur
2016 present Philadelphia Eagles Doug Pederson Frank Reich
2017 present San Francisco 49ers Kyle Shanahan
2017 present Los Angeles Rams Sean McVay
Short passing game w/option routes does not = WCO
Just like deep passing option routes does not = RNS
Start End Team Head coach Offensive coordinator
1979 1988 San Francisco 49ers Bill Walsh
1984 1991 Cincinnati Bengals Sam Wyche Bruce Coslet
1988 — Los Angeles Raiders Mike Shanahan
1989 — Cleveland Browns Bud Carson Marc Trestman
1989 1996 San Francisco 49ers George Seifert Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, and Marc Trestman
1990 1993 New York Jets Bruce Coslet
1992 1998 Green Bay Packers Mike Holmgren Sherman Lewis
1992 2001 Minnesota Vikings Dennis Green Jack Burns, Brian Billick, Ray Sherman, and Sherman Lewis
1992 1995 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Sam Wyche
1993 1996 Chicago Bears Dave Wannstedt Ron Turner
1993 1994 Denver Broncos Wade Phillips Jim Fassel
1993 1997 Kansas City Chiefs Marty Schottenheimer Paul Hackett
1995 2008 Denver Broncos Mike Shanahan Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison
1995 1997 Philadelphia Eagles Ray Rhodes Jon Gruden
1996 — Arizona Cardinals Vince Tobin Jim Fassel
1997 1999 Cincinnati Bengals Bruce Coslet Ken Anderson
1997 2003 New York Giants Jim Fassel Jim Skipper and Sean Payton
1997 2002 San Francisco 49ers Steve Mariucci Marty Mornhinweg and Greg Knapp
1998 2000 Arizona Cardinals Vince Tobin Marc Trestman
1998 — Carolina Panthers Dom Capers Gil Haskell
1998 2001 Oakland Raiders Jon Gruden Bill Callahan
1999 2007 Baltimore Ravens Brian Billick Matt Cavanaugh, Jim Fassel, and Rick Neuheisel
1999 — Carolina Panthers George Seifert Gil Haskell
1999 2012 Philadelphia Eagles Andy Reid Rod Dowhower, Brad Childress and Marty Mornhinweg
1999 2008 Seattle Seahawks Mike Holmgren Mike Sherman and Gil Haskell
2000 2005 Green Bay Packers Mike Sherman Tom Rossley
2000 2004 New Orleans Saints Jim Haslett Mike McCarthy
2000 2010 Tennessee Titans Jeff Fisher Mike Heimerdinger and Norm Chow
2001 2002 Detroit Lions Marty Mornhinweg Maurice Carthon
2001 2005 New York Jets Herman Edwards Paul Hackett and Mike Heimerdinger
2002 — Dallas Cowboys Dave Campo Bruce Coslet
2002 2003 Oakland Raiders Bill Callahan Marc Trestman
2002 2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Jon Gruden Bill Muir
2003 2005 Detroit Lions Steve Mariucci Sherman Lewis, Greg Olson, and Ted Tollner
2003 2004 Jacksonville Jaguars Jack Del Rio Bill Musgrave
2004 2006 Arizona Cardinals Dennis Green Alex Wood, Keith Rowen, and Mike Kruczek
2004 2006 Atlanta Falcons Jim L. Mora Greg Knapp
2005 2009 Chicago Bears Lovie Smith Ron Turner
2005 — San Francisco 49ers Mike Nolan Mike McCarthy
2006 present Green Bay Packers Mike McCarthy Jeff Jagodzinski, Joe Philbin, Tom Clements, and Edgar Bennett
2006 2013 Houston Texans Gary Kubiak Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, Kyle Shanahan, and Rick Dennison
2006 2007 Kansas City Chiefs Herman Edwards Mike Solari
2006 2010 Minnesota Vikings Brad Childress Darrell Bevell
2007 — Atlanta Falcons Bobby Petrino Hue Jackson
2007 2008 Oakland Raiders Lane Kiffin Greg Knapp
2007 — San Francisco 49ers Mike Nolan Jim Hostler
2008 2009 Buffalo Bills Dick Jauron Turk Schonert and Alex Van Pelt
2008 — Detroit Lions Rod Marinelli Jim Colletto
2008 2010 Oakland Raiders Tom Cable Greg Knapp and Hue Jackson
2008 2009 Washington Redskins Jim Zorn Sherman Smith
2009 2010 St. Louis Rams Steve Spagnuolo Pat Shurmur
2009 — Seattle Seahawks Jim L. Mora Greg Knapp
2009 2011 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Raheem Morris Greg Olson
2010 present Seattle Seahawks Pete Carroll Jeremy Bates and Darrell Bevell
2010 2013 Washington Redskins Mike Shanahan Kyle Shanahan
2011 present Cincinnati Bengals Marvin Lewis Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson
2011 2012 Cleveland Browns Pat Shurmur Brad Childress
2011 2012 Denver Broncos John Fox Mike McCoy
2011 2013 Minnesota Vikings Leslie Frazier Bill Musgrave
2011 — Oakland Raiders Hue Jackson Al Saunders
2011 2014 San Francisco 49ers Jim Harbaugh Greg Roman
2012 2013 Miami Dolphins Joe Philbin Mike Sherman
2012 2014 Oakland Raiders Dennis Allen Greg Knapp and Greg Olson
2013 2014 Chicago Bears Marc Trestman Aaron Kromer
2013 2014 New York Jets Rex Ryan Marty Mornhinweg
2014 — Oakland Raiders Tony Sparano Greg Olson
2014 2015 Cleveland Browns Mike Pettine Kyle Shanahan and John DeFilippo
2014 2015 New York Giants Tom Coughlin Ben McAdoo
2015 — San Francisco 49ers Jim Tomsula Geep Chryst
2013 present Indianapolis Colts Chuck Pagano Pep Hamilton and Rob Chudzinski
2013 present Jacksonville Jaguars Gus Bradley Jedd Fisch and Greg Olson
2013 present Kansas City Chiefs Andy Reid Doug Pederson, Brad Childress, and Matt Nagy
2014 present Baltimore Ravens John Harbaugh Gary Kubiak and Marc Trestman
2014 2016 Washington Redskins Jay Gruden Sean McVay
2015 present Atlanta Falcons Dan Quinn Kyle Shanahan, Steve Sarkisian
2015 2016 Buffalo Bills Rex Ryan Greg Roman
2015 2016 Denver Broncos Gary Kubiak Rick Dennison
2015 present Oakland Raiders Jack Del Rio Bill Musgrave
2016 present New York Giants Ben McAdoo Mike Sullivan
2016 present Minnesota Vikings Mike Zimmer Pat Shurmur
2016 present Philadelphia Eagles Doug Pederson Frank Reich
2017 present San Francisco 49ers Kyle Shanahan
2017 present Los Angeles Rams Sean McVay
Short passing game w/option routes does not = WCO
Just like deep passing option routes does not = RNS
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:58 am
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