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Message
re: The SEC has really underwhelmed in hires
Posted on 12/6/15 at 3:06 am to Rou Leed
Posted on 12/6/15 at 3:06 am to Rou Leed
quote:
Only a couple of Bryant assistants turned out decent and a handful were terrible. None won a natty
Yeah? I seem to remember at least a few winning natties. Howard Schnellenberger at Miami, Gene Stallings, and Danny Ford at Clemson to name three.
1
Posted on 12/6/15 at 3:12 am to Snout Spout
You are correct. Was thinking more about coaches that had to coach directly against Bryant while he was alive. Should have made that clearer in OP. Also Fisher really should not be considered a Saban protege. Was always more of a Bowden guy from time at Auburn.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 3:35 am to Rou Leed
quote:
You are correct. Was thinking more about coaches that had to coach directly against Bryant while he was alive. Should have made that clearer in OP. Also Fisher really should not be considered a Saban protege. Was always more of a Bowden guy from time at Auburn.
Although Stallings didn't win his natty until Bryant had passed, he did beat him head-to-head in the Cotton Bowl when he was at A&M. Picked him up and carried him off the field.
It was Stallings's best A&M squad and one of Bryant's lesser Bama ones, but hey, that's something.
This post was edited on 12/6/15 at 3:36 am
Posted on 12/6/15 at 4:17 am to Snout Spout
quote:
So Smart is going to hire USC's head coach as an OC? This I want to see.
His brother.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 8:02 am to rebeloke
I've said this before, but the whole "good coaches want to come coach in the SEC" thing is mostly a myth now, and we're starting to see that come to fruition. It didn't used to be like that, but it is now.
We're not exactly the most reasonable fans in the world when it comes to expectations vs. outputs, the schedules are extremely tough, there are no in-conference gimme wins with the exception of Vandy and Kentucky on occasion, and recruiting in the South is a meatgrinder.
Take the cases of Urban Meyer and Bret Bielema. Meyer had a few good years at Florida before it all went to hell, he had a quasi-nervous breakdown and fled to the Big Ten via "retirement" where he's lost a total of 1 conference game in 4 years while working admittedly less. Inversely, Bielema owned the Big Ten before jumping at an SEC opportunity, wherein he proceeded to get his head caved in in year 1 and only started to crawl out of the doldrums in year 2.
Also, two of the most successful head coaches in recent SEC history either got canned (Richt) or barely saved their job via political infighting (Miles), despite the fact that their records were both 9-3 (I'm counting McNeese for LSU).
Nothing was more telling than when there were 3 good jobs open and they all had to settle for coordinator hires, though Georgia arguably wanted theirs all along. There's a reason guys like Patterson, Petersen, Gundy, Dantonio, RichRod and Herman have turned down one or more SEC offers. They want nothing to do with the challenges posed by coaching in the SEC.
We're not exactly the most reasonable fans in the world when it comes to expectations vs. outputs, the schedules are extremely tough, there are no in-conference gimme wins with the exception of Vandy and Kentucky on occasion, and recruiting in the South is a meatgrinder.
Take the cases of Urban Meyer and Bret Bielema. Meyer had a few good years at Florida before it all went to hell, he had a quasi-nervous breakdown and fled to the Big Ten via "retirement" where he's lost a total of 1 conference game in 4 years while working admittedly less. Inversely, Bielema owned the Big Ten before jumping at an SEC opportunity, wherein he proceeded to get his head caved in in year 1 and only started to crawl out of the doldrums in year 2.
Also, two of the most successful head coaches in recent SEC history either got canned (Richt) or barely saved their job via political infighting (Miles), despite the fact that their records were both 9-3 (I'm counting McNeese for LSU).
Nothing was more telling than when there were 3 good jobs open and they all had to settle for coordinator hires, though Georgia arguably wanted theirs all along. There's a reason guys like Patterson, Petersen, Gundy, Dantonio, RichRod and Herman have turned down one or more SEC offers. They want nothing to do with the challenges posed by coaching in the SEC.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 9:36 am to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
Any coach that doesn't have a competitive spirit and doesn't want a challenge won't survive long as a coach. Every coach has to believe they are the greatest and should want to test their merit against the toughest competition
Y'all need to realize this is real world, not a movie. These guys have families to provide for, it's a job. They look at the same job qualities everyone else does: security, location, expectations, pay.
Do policemen in quiet rural towns just uproot their families and go work in the big cities so they can make headlines and take violent criminals off the street, I'd assume the pay is better and a cop who doesn't have a want to fight crime isn't a very good cop.
This post was edited on 12/6/15 at 9:37 am
Posted on 12/6/15 at 10:22 am to 007mag
This is the time for schools with established HC's to stomp on the throats of the newbies and never let them come up for air.
Mullen and Bielema should be out there flipping recruits and selling their stability.
There's questions regarding how long Miles, Freeze, Malzahn, and Sumlin will be at their schools. That list now includes Stoops and Saban. Bama doesn't need to sell anything to recruits.
McElwain and Freeze are likely looking at some more scandal over the next year.
With Missouri, USCjr and UGA with new coaches and Auburn, LSU, Kentucky maybe A&M having a lingering doubt about their coaches and the retirement rumors will ramp up on Saban regardless of outcome this year. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Tennessee, Miss St, and Vandy have an opportunity to grab some power and pass up a number of teams.
Mullen and Bielema should be out there flipping recruits and selling their stability.
There's questions regarding how long Miles, Freeze, Malzahn, and Sumlin will be at their schools. That list now includes Stoops and Saban. Bama doesn't need to sell anything to recruits.
McElwain and Freeze are likely looking at some more scandal over the next year.
With Missouri, USCjr and UGA with new coaches and Auburn, LSU, Kentucky maybe A&M having a lingering doubt about their coaches and the retirement rumors will ramp up on Saban regardless of outcome this year. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Tennessee, Miss St, and Vandy have an opportunity to grab some power and pass up a number of teams.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 10:25 am to CtotheVrzrbck
Bathroom board material
Posted on 12/6/15 at 12:16 pm to Rou Leed
quote:
Only a couple of Bryant assistants turned out decent and a handful were terrible. None won a natty.
Schnellenberger bro.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 12:18 pm to Feral
quote:
I've said this before, but the whole "good coaches want to come coach in the SEC" thing is mostly a myth now, and we're starting to see that come to fruition. It didn't used to be like that, but it is now.
When Richt gets canned and Miles gets close to getting canned, other coaches take note. That's why I don't think any of the SEC schools are top 5 jobs imo.
This post was edited on 12/6/15 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 12/6/15 at 12:36 pm to TheOcean
quote:
When Richt gets canned and Miles gets close to getting canned, other coaches take note. That's why I don't think any of the SEC schools are top 5 jobs imo.
Top notch coaches aren't gaping vaginas. If you think schools like Bama, Florida, Georgia & LSU aren't some of the top jobs in the country, you're delusional.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 12:48 pm to ZZTIGERS
quote:
Top notch coaches aren't gaping vaginas
You're so hardcore!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
If you think schools like Bama, Florida, Georgia & LSU aren't some of the top jobs in the country
UF MIGHT be a top 5 coaching job. The rest? No.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 12:52 pm to TheOcean
quote:
You're so hardcore!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok? The point is that top coaches aren't scared away. Hence the gaping vagina comment.
quote:
UF MIGHT be a top 5 coaching job. The rest? No.
Bama isn't a top 5 job? Sure man.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 12:58 pm to TheOcean
quote:
If you think schools like Bama, Florida, Georgia & LSU aren't some of the top jobs in the country
UF MIGHT be a top 5 coaching job. The rest? No.
Florida is certainly a top 5 job. Bama, UGA and LSU are all easily top 10.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 1:10 pm to H-Town Tiger
It's impossible to actually name the top 5 jobs in the country. There's too many teams that fit the criteria one way or the other.
Bama
Ohio st
Michigan
USC
Texas
Notre Dame
Florida
LSU
Georgia
Florida St
There's 10 teams right there, that one way or the other could be argued as top 5 jobs. And I'm sure I'm leaving out some obvious ones too.
ETA: Oklahoma?
Bama
Ohio st
Michigan
USC
Texas
Notre Dame
Florida
LSU
Georgia
Florida St
There's 10 teams right there, that one way or the other could be argued as top 5 jobs. And I'm sure I'm leaving out some obvious ones too.
ETA: Oklahoma?
This post was edited on 12/6/15 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 12/6/15 at 1:20 pm to ZZTIGERS
I think in a vacuum the top 4 are, in no particular order : Texas, USC, Ohio State and Florida. The rest you have there round out the top 10
Posted on 12/6/15 at 1:20 pm to ZZTIGERS
History wise things have changed. Nebraska and Penn St are up there.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 1:32 pm to rebeloke
I agree, I think Richt is a better head coach than Smart. They made a very risky hire, imo.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 1:55 pm to rebeloke
The pendulum is swinging back. Everything goes in cycles.
For a little while there all the coaching talent had left the big 10 and big12 was concentrated primarily in the SEC and somewhat in the pac10 now 12. Its swinging back. 6-7 years ago you had Meyer, Saban, peak Miles, Richt and Petrino all in one conference. Not to mention Auburn going balls to the wall paying players under chizik. Pac 10 had Carroll, harbaugh, belotti/kelly. Big 10 had Tressell on the down swing, the rich rod/hoke disaster, John L Smith, and a senile JoePa.
Now the big 10 has Dantonio, Meyer Harbaugh, Fitzgerald and James Franklin.
Big12 has rejuvinated stoops, patterson, briles, Gundy.
This always happens. It will possibly swing back in 3-4 years when UGA, LSU, Auburn, Tenn are looking for coaches again. For now expect Big 10 and 12 to dominate the next 3-4 years IMO. The SEC has a brain drain.
For a little while there all the coaching talent had left the big 10 and big12 was concentrated primarily in the SEC and somewhat in the pac10 now 12. Its swinging back. 6-7 years ago you had Meyer, Saban, peak Miles, Richt and Petrino all in one conference. Not to mention Auburn going balls to the wall paying players under chizik. Pac 10 had Carroll, harbaugh, belotti/kelly. Big 10 had Tressell on the down swing, the rich rod/hoke disaster, John L Smith, and a senile JoePa.
Now the big 10 has Dantonio, Meyer Harbaugh, Fitzgerald and James Franklin.
Big12 has rejuvinated stoops, patterson, briles, Gundy.
This always happens. It will possibly swing back in 3-4 years when UGA, LSU, Auburn, Tenn are looking for coaches again. For now expect Big 10 and 12 to dominate the next 3-4 years IMO. The SEC has a brain drain.
Posted on 12/6/15 at 2:56 pm to Adam Banks
There is no doubt the B1G has had an infusion of coaching talent lately and that has helped even things out. 1 built in advantage the SEC has is the recruiting base is deeper. 5 of the top 8 states for producing NFL players are in the SEC footprint vs 2 for the B1G.
But to the OP, is there are more underwhelming hire than Clay Helton at USC? Has this guy been getting buzz before? At least Smart has been rumored for HC jobs for a while. I think this goes to show just how much Saban and Meyer have warped people's perceptions. Those guys are outliers. You rarely get those type of grand slam hires. And now that the 2nd tier P5 teams are a) proving you can get to the playoff there and b) paying good money i think it will be harder and harder to make really sexy hires.
But to the OP, is there are more underwhelming hire than Clay Helton at USC? Has this guy been getting buzz before? At least Smart has been rumored for HC jobs for a while. I think this goes to show just how much Saban and Meyer have warped people's perceptions. Those guys are outliers. You rarely get those type of grand slam hires. And now that the 2nd tier P5 teams are a) proving you can get to the playoff there and b) paying good money i think it will be harder and harder to make really sexy hires.
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