re: Sean Payton made me realize...

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no, this is a shitty argument. you are saying: since theres not damning evidence, it cant be true. its the same argument as barry bonds and steroids. i dont have actual evidence he took them, but the circumstantial evidence is damning. just b/c theres no confession or a smoking syringe, doesnt mean hes innocent

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Technically what you made was a shitty argument. Real logical arguments do require some evidence (damning or otherwise). Could you please tell me what is the damning evidence , other than the ad nauseum argument by the rant, as to how you arrived at Les the Figurehead?

Feeling, how you think, your friends etc... don't matter squat. Links - audio, video, text of interviews/conversations with coaches/players/AD folks do help to prove your case.

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Payton
Reid
uh... help me out here

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Rex Ryan calls D
Garret calls Cowboys O
Holmgren used to call O
...

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My point is this - How do you know that he is not an active hands-on coach?

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Miles used the royal "we" in referring to Crowton after the Tennessee almost-debacle:

Les Miles per USA Today: "The series of plays at the back end of that game was embarrassing to me," said Miles, who usually does not call plays but has veto power. "We should have called two plays with our goal-line personnel so we would have gotten two plays. That's what should have been called, but that's not what happened."

An active-hands-on CEO coach would have had two plays called.


Also, after the winnable Auburn game, there was that 4th & 6 confusion where LSU calls a timeout, Crowton calls a play, Miles calls a play, but the players go back on the field without knowing which play to run, and Ensminger is trying to call a back-to-back timeout. Tell me if Miles sounds like an active hands-on CEO here:

Les Miles quote: "There must of been two calls...umm...you know in...er. There was only one call that that really was made. And but I, but I...you know. I know there was great interference and it was you know unbelievably loud. And whether it was all communicated. Uh, er. I certainly don't know or understand why Shepard came off. I felt like, that you know, that we just were there and the idea that all the communication should well have been made at that point. I just felt like let's just go play this play. So, we had the play called um really before the timeout."

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If the DC or OC is a dummy - it is pointless to retain them for a long time.

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On the contrary, Saints OC Pete Carmicheal will remain with the Saints indefinitely. He is need to help with day-to-day & gameday organizational duties a play-calling coach can't get to. No one will ever poach him from our staff.

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If they (DC or OC) are really good - they are going to get poached.

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I agree with you 100%. But that's the point of my thread. Good coordinators get poached when they direct an offense or defense to success. Other teams want to give those guys a chance at moving up to being a head coach, and CEO coaches are once again having to look for another coordinator. It's the staff turnover is what I'm frustrated with.

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Technically what you made was a shitty argument. Real logical arguments do require some evidence (damning or otherwise). Could you please tell me what is the damning evidence , other than the ad nauseum argument by the rant, as to how you arrived at Les the Figurehead?

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ok- he's either a CEO type and hires somene(crowton) to run the offense. Or it's his pathetic offense. Which one is it? Evidence would be offense in 90-100 the last 2 years. If you want to try to blame QBing, that falls at les' feet too.

Is it les' negligence in hiring a bad OC- and keeping him- or is it his offense?

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I don't think there's much of a point to this.

There's plenty of different styles to coaching and all of them have been successful.

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It's not a question of which is more or less successful because both have had their ups & downs. It's about if your HC calls either the OC or DC, then there's no staff turnover at that position, and there's no change on that side of the ball.

If Bobby Bowden called the plays (successfully...like Mark Richt called for him throughout the 90's) then Bobby may not have had the decade-long lull in success that he had once Richt left.

If Les Miles (successfully) calls the offense, in theory, we wouldn't have had scheme changes between Jimbo leaving to Crowton's dismal era.

Or if Les Miles theoretically called the defense (successfully), we theoretically wouldn't have needed Pelini or Chavis, nor would we have suffered through Mal-veto.


Sean Payton himself was slightly feeling the heat in '08 despite his genius offense. Gibbs was mediocre to poor as a DC. However, Payton only needed to find one coordinator to complement his strengths & take him off the "hot seat", not two coordinators. It just makes more sense staff-wise, and for scheme continuity, imo.

also known as a CEO head coach or more like ABSENTEE OWNER at times. I also like a HC who can and /or will call one side of the ball.

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if you are paid like a top 10 coach, top 10 results are expected.

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If we beat A&M, Les will have 4 top 10 finishes in 6 years. And 3 top 5s.