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Started By
Message
Sean Payton made me realize...
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:22 am
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:22 am
...I'm starting to hate figure head coaches.
Don't get me wrong, I love our figurehead coach Les Miles. You can't script his magical & mythical madness. He is great entertainment for college football, and his goofiness is gold for most of my animated gifs.
But if Les called his own plays like Sean Payton, we wouldn't be having the annual vulture and leech buffet/rumor-mill off our decent coordinators and assistants.
Plus, the blame for poor play-calling could actually fall on the head coach himself, instead of just falling on the sword for a "bad hire" years after the fact. Too many head coaches seem to be nothing more than glorified HR guys.
Even the "successful" figurehead coaches like Urban Meyer & Pete Carroll suffered from losing their top coordinators.
So if Sean Payton can call his own plays and oversee a whole NFL team, why aren't more college head coaches capable of the same at a lower level?
Don't get me wrong, I love our figurehead coach Les Miles. You can't script his magical & mythical madness. He is great entertainment for college football, and his goofiness is gold for most of my animated gifs.
But if Les called his own plays like Sean Payton, we wouldn't be having the annual vulture and leech buffet/rumor-mill off our decent coordinators and assistants.
Plus, the blame for poor play-calling could actually fall on the head coach himself, instead of just falling on the sword for a "bad hire" years after the fact. Too many head coaches seem to be nothing more than glorified HR guys.
Even the "successful" figurehead coaches like Urban Meyer & Pete Carroll suffered from losing their top coordinators.
So if Sean Payton can call his own plays and oversee a whole NFL team, why aren't more college head coaches capable of the same at a lower level?
10
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:33 am to LSUFreek
Going by your definition of a figurehead coach, Bobby Bowden was a "figurehead head coach" when Florida State finished in the top 5 for 14 consecutive years from 1987-2000. But hey, Bowden doesn't call any plays on offense. He's no Sean Payton.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:33 am to LSUFreek
quote:
So if Sean Payton can call his own plays and oversee a whole NFL team, why aren't more college head coaches capable of the same at a lower level?
My reply to this would be the amount of player/coach interaction required in the NFL vs. college. Paid professional athletes with decades of experience compared to college kids (some a year or two removed from high school)
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:33 am to LSUFreek
Particularly frustrating when you are paying that figure-head headcoach $3.75 Million. 
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:40 am to LSUFreek
quote:
...I'm starting to hate figure head coaches.
Don't get me wrong, I love our figurehead coach Les Miles. You can't script his magical & mythical madness. He is great entertainment for college football, and his goofiness is gold for most of my animated gifs.
I wonder if anyone took any time to actually figure out if calling Les a Figure head coach , who just appeared on the field and banquets was true?
There is a huge likelihood that this rumor from the rant took on a life of its own, till everyone started taking this for granted - this is merely an Argument Ad Nauseam.
The guy has been a head coach at two different schools in BCS conferences and has been hired at the NFL level as well and there is yet this overwhelming surety in knowing that he doesn't do squat in the team other than hire other coaches and provide entertainment by goofiness on the field.
Has any of the previous coaches ever mentioned that Les knew nothing and left it to others?
Is there any substantive link to show this?
The usual argument is - "oh no one is going to come out and say that publicly or on record"
All of these are illogical and are appeals to false or anonymous authority and at best are mere arguments of False Compromise.
What does it mean for les : HATE him if you want because he is the head coach and you don't like the product on the field but don't make assumptions that you cannot prove.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 1:52 am to CalTiger
I believe Head Coach as CEO is the wave of the future.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 2:17 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
Going by your definition of a figurehead coach, Bobby Bowden was a "figurehead head coach" when Florida State finished in the top 5 for 14 consecutive years from 1987-2000. But hey, Bowden doesn't call any plays on offense. He's no Sean Payton.
I'm in awe over that powerhouse Bowden had after Mark Richt left.
He had one 10-win season after Richt left. And what did Richt learn? How to hire Mike Bobo.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 2:36 am to CalTiger
quote:
Is there any substantive link to show this?
I don't have a link, but to your point, Chavis actually stated recently that Les Miles is a "brilliant when it comes to strategy in football games". I don't believe he is a dummy; he just plays one on TV.
Again, I don't hate Miles at all. But he certainly "leaves it to others" as you say during football games as opposed to other active figurehead coaches like Bill Cowher, Nick Saban, or Bo Pelini who at the very least appear cognizant of the plays called.
But that's not even my initial point. My point is if the HC was the OC or the DC, our good assistants wouldn't get replaced every two years.
And it would also pinpoint the blame game, instead of the "Who's at fault: The idiot who called that play or the idiot who hired that idiot to call that play?"
Posted on 12/31/10 at 3:17 am to LSUFreek
There are several HCs who have made the 'CEO' model work.
Bobby Bowden is one of them. JoePa is certainly another one in that mold.
Pete Carroll was actually quite involved in the play-calling at USC. He had hired Nick Holt as the 'DC', but actually ended up calling the plays for the championship years they had. In addition, on offense, the system he had in place allowed for him to overrule the offensive play-call on any given down if he wanted to.
Meyer was a "CEO" type, but he was quite involved in the offense and was the special teams coach. He ran the spread option at BGSU, Utah, and UF.
Mack Brown and Bob Stoops are both 'CEO' style coaches, as is Mark Richt.
My point is, both types of HCs can be successful on both the pro and the college level.
Bobby Bowden is one of them. JoePa is certainly another one in that mold.
Pete Carroll was actually quite involved in the play-calling at USC. He had hired Nick Holt as the 'DC', but actually ended up calling the plays for the championship years they had. In addition, on offense, the system he had in place allowed for him to overrule the offensive play-call on any given down if he wanted to.
Meyer was a "CEO" type, but he was quite involved in the offense and was the special teams coach. He ran the spread option at BGSU, Utah, and UF.
Mack Brown and Bob Stoops are both 'CEO' style coaches, as is Mark Richt.
My point is, both types of HCs can be successful on both the pro and the college level.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 6:20 am to LSUFreek
quote:
[quote]Again, I don't hate Miles at all. But he certainly "leaves it to others" as you say during football games as opposed to other active figurehead coaches like Bill Cowher, Nick Saban, or Bo Pelini who at the very least appear cognizant of the plays called.
My point is this - How do you know that he is not an active hands-on coach?
Because he doesn't appear that way on TV?
quote:
But that's not even my initial point. My point is if the HC was the OC or the DC, our good assistants wouldn't get replaced every two years.
If you have a HC doing the job of OC or DC then it is really illogical to be paying huge amounts of money to retain a DC (like Bama is doing now) with Smart.
If the DC or OC is a dummy - it is pointless to retain them for a long time. If they are really good - they are going to get poached.
quote:
And it would also pinpoint the blame game, instead of the "Who's at fault: The idiot who called that play or the idiot who hired that idiot to call that play?"
As I had mentioned earlier - he is the HC and in fact he has mentioned it in every interview that he has a hand in it - so blame Les for being responsible for that play.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 6:30 am to CalTiger
Bear Bryant was one, worked pretty good for him.
Bowden was one, worked for him. I think he is the dean of the les miles school of coaching.
Bowden was one, worked for him. I think he is the dean of the les miles school of coaching.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 8:14 am to dke
Aren't there more successful figurehead coaches than playcallers?
A lot of the playcallers seem to fail in being complete head coaches: just recently, Paul Johnson (pays no attention to defense or special teams), and Mike Leach (never got the defense to come around).
It would take a bit to research, but I'm pretty sure that there's been many more successful CEO type coaches (over the long-haul, more than 5 years at one school) than playcallers.
A lot of the playcallers seem to fail in being complete head coaches: just recently, Paul Johnson (pays no attention to defense or special teams), and Mike Leach (never got the defense to come around).
It would take a bit to research, but I'm pretty sure that there's been many more successful CEO type coaches (over the long-haul, more than 5 years at one school) than playcallers.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 8:33 am to CalTiger
Dont lots of NFL coaches call the plays.
Payton
Reid
uh... help me out here
Payton
Reid
uh... help me out here
Posted on 12/31/10 at 9:53 am to The Mick
i am sure if miles had drew brees at qb the offense would look better. 
Posted on 12/31/10 at 10:43 am to LSUFreek
I think most head coaches are incapable of micromanaging a game. Les has trouble just watching the clock and the field sometimes.
Sean Payton is a genius.
Draw us a cool New Year's graphic freek! Happy New Year!
Sean Payton is a genius.
Draw us a cool New Year's graphic freek! Happy New Year!
Posted on 12/31/10 at 10:50 am to LSUFreek
College and the NFL are not good comparisons in my opinion. It is a different game. I also think Payton is a great offensive mind. He learns and adapts quickly. He also works very well with Drew Brees. Les has no QB and he is at best an average offensive mind. Les does a lot of things well (recruiting, players love him) but he is not an offensive coordinator.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 10:54 am to LSUFreek
Bear Bryant didn't call plays during a game,he didn't ever wear a headset. Hell most of the time he was barely sober. I could list more but you get the picture.
90% of a game is a result of planning and parctice.
Sean "oversees" about half the people a college coach does and he doesn't have to bother with recruiting.
Calling the plays is the easy part. It's all charted. Putting the game plan together is the hard part.
90% of a game is a result of planning and parctice.
Sean "oversees" about half the people a college coach does and he doesn't have to bother with recruiting.
Calling the plays is the easy part. It's all charted. Putting the game plan together is the hard part.
Posted on 12/31/10 at 10:55 am to LSUFreek
quote:
Sean Payton can call his own plays and oversee a whole NFL team
This guy just spit coffee all over his computer screen:
Posted on 12/31/10 at 11:27 am to Tiger Voodoo
amen to this whole thread. thats why i covet gus malzahn like i do. its just so hard filling both coordinators with quality guys- and as soon as they do really well- they leave and you gotta refill the position.
thank you freek for making this point. it was a different era when figurehead bobby bowden was doing it. now, coordinators are itching to move up and take new jobs its hard to keep good ones around.
in my head somewhere, i have always thought gus malzahn + john chavis can be the college equivalent of sean payton + greg williams
thank you freek for making this point. it was a different era when figurehead bobby bowden was doing it. now, coordinators are itching to move up and take new jobs its hard to keep good ones around.
in my head somewhere, i have always thought gus malzahn + john chavis can be the college equivalent of sean payton + greg williams
Posted on 12/31/10 at 11:28 am to LSUMafia
quote:exactly. then you have to overpay coordinators who are doing the dirty work
Particularly frustrating when you are paying that figure-head headcoach $3.75 Million
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