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Minority coaching hooplah....
Posted on 12/5/08 at 11:46 am
Posted on 12/5/08 at 11:46 am
where did it all disappear to? Remember when Croom got the job a Moo St. there was a big uproar on the subject, but now with the 30 or so head coaching jobs opening this year no one has uttered a word. What gives?
I guess Obama moving into the White House makes a head coaching job kind of irrelevant.
I guess Obama moving into the White House makes a head coaching job kind of irrelevant.
1
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:05 pm to ezride25
I honestly cringe everytime this is talked about. The #1 goal is to win and a program will hire the person they feel gives them the best change to have a winning program. Whether that person is white, black, red, green, I don't think the color doesnt matter.
The NBA has a lot of black coaches, black colleges have mostly if not all black coaches. They need to drop it.
The NBA has a lot of black coaches, black colleges have mostly if not all black coaches. They need to drop it.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:08 pm to GeauxChrisSports
Nice observation, it does appear to have "died down".
I always like the "Well, 80% of NFL/College football players are black, so shouldn't the percentage be a lot closer for coaches?"
Like that makes any sense...
I always like the "Well, 80% of NFL/College football players are black, so shouldn't the percentage be a lot closer for coaches?"
Like that makes any sense...
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:17 pm to Tiger4Ever
quote:
I honestly cringe everytime this is talked about.
Yeah the whole subject is kind of ludicrous, but I find it quite comical at the same time. Funny how no one talks about interviewing candidates of Indian or Asian background. It's like "minority" is code for African American.
And do you know that not one head coach from the CFL was even contacted for one of the newly vacated HC positions in the NCAA? Unconscionable!
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:17 pm to Tiger4Ever
Also, how many black coaches out there could be a head coach at this time? Based on age, experience, how many legit black candidates are out there?
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:20 pm to GeauxChrisSports
quote:
how many legit black candidates are out there?
Not many
Kevin Sumlin (Houston)
Charlie Strong
Mike Locksley (Illini offensive coordinator)
Ken Norton Jr (?)
Dwayne Walker (UCLA)
And that's about all I can think of.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:25 pm to GeauxChrisSports
quote:
Also, how many black coaches out there could be a head coach at this time?
See this is why I find the "minority coaching movement" to be counterproductive. It used to be that people asked "how many coaches are ready to be HC?" But now people are asking "how many MINORITY coaches are ready to be HC?"
It is forcing race to be an issue where it was not an issue before. I'm not denying this country's sordid history of racial tension, but this minority HC thing seems to be doing more harm than good.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:31 pm to ezride25
Michael Wilbon on PTI actually said he thinks all of this coach in waiting stuff is to get around having to interview minorities.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:41 pm to ehidal1
quote:
Michael Wilbon on PTI actually said he thinks all of this coach in waiting stuff is to get around having to interview minorities.
Interesting thought there.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:43 pm to ezride25
Well, Kentucky has a black coach in waiting
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:47 pm to ezride25
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/26/22 at 2:35 am
Posted on 12/5/08 at 12:52 pm to Tiger4Ever
quote:
Nice observation, it does appear to have "died down".
It "died" completely, not just "down" 2 years ago, when Alabama was NEVER expected to consider or interview an African American candidate. The double standard in that "process" was glaring, and I don't think any school today needs to be pressed about that issue, since the Gumps totally snubbed their noses at it.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 1:00 pm to ezride25
quote:
Funny how no one talks about interviewing candidates of Indian or Asian background. It's like "minority" is code for African American.
Well that's a stupid point to make considering that blacks make up like 75% of the player populace.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 1:01 pm to truthbetold
quote:
And that's about all I can think of.
I'm assuming we are only talking about guys who haven't had a permanent head coaching job yet.
Ron English
Terry Robiskie (though he was interim head coach at Cleveland)
Posted on 12/5/08 at 1:14 pm to mattz1122
quote:
Well that's a stupid point to make considering that blacks make up like 75% of the player populace
That's a logical fallacy. First of all, there's no reason to set yourself up to look bad by throwing out numbers like "75%". It is sufficient to say, the numbers of AA players is extremely high considering their percentage of the population. However, virtually nobody hires great PLAYERs to coach. They hire great coaches.
Most coaches were, at best, adequate players, who were not talented enough to be drafted by the NFL (exceptions abound, of course, but I'm speaking generally). They became graduate assistants (because they were students of the game, or that their degree in "kinesiology" qualifies them for little else), then position coaches, then coordinators, then head coaches. THAT's the ingredient that blacks were missing until relatively recently - a pool of qualified assistant coaches from which to select head coaches. Now, there are enough examples, in both NFL and college ranks of black head coaches, that it is no longer a novelty. (See Superbowl XLI - Dungy's Colts versus Smith's Bears)
Posted on 12/5/08 at 2:14 pm to Ace Midnight
What about Tomlin for the Steelers? I don't think you can use the whole "coaches aren't seasoned enough / ready" argument. The reality is that NCAA programs make money whatever the coach is. LSU has been sold out for years, and with 400+ channels almost every game is televised.
That being said, it is a bit ridiculous that guys like Charlie Strong don't even get an interview. You can't say that there isn't a racial element especially in the South - There's no way that South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Alabama, or Ole Miss would hire a black coach. They just wouldn't.
That being said, I'd expect the change to come in the north like at a Boston College or UConn or something.
That being said, it is a bit ridiculous that guys like Charlie Strong don't even get an interview. You can't say that there isn't a racial element especially in the South - There's no way that South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Alabama, or Ole Miss would hire a black coach. They just wouldn't.
That being said, I'd expect the change to come in the north like at a Boston College or UConn or something.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 2:17 pm to ehidal1
quote:
Michael Wilbon
is a racist. If he were white he would have been "Don Imus"ed by now.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 2:45 pm to ironsides
quote:
What about Tomlin for the Steelers? I don't think you can use the whole "coaches aren't seasoned enough / ready" argument.
What about him? Is that what you thought I was saying? I'm sorry, I thought I was clear - the problem there wasn't a large enough pool of qualified black assistant coaches to justify any sort of proportional number of head coaches to players, based on race (which, even I am letting myself be drawn into, is a nonsensical argument in the 21st century. In a capitalistic society, the only color that matters should be green, and the best person for the job should be hired, regardless of color, whether that be to install a dishwasher, fix a diesel transmission, or coach linebackers.)
Anyway, the same "statistics" which Mark Twain warned us about were used to slam football as racist. I was pointing out that what was required to start seeing large numbers of black head coaches was a "critical mass", so to speak, of assistant coaches, which we now have. I think that the opportunities have probably come faster in the NFL than in big league college football (which is a shame, really), but we are at a point where the color of the coach is becoming less and less relevant. This is a good thing. The less attention paid to the color of someone's skin, the better.
quote:
You can't say that there isn't a racial element especially in the South - There's no way that South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Alabama, or Ole Miss would hire a black coach. They just wouldn't.
You are right, I can't say it. There is a residue of ugliness that remains (and not just in the south). Croom breaking the color barrier among SEC head coaches was a step in the right direction. Kentucky fielded the first black player to play in an SEC football game, Nate Northington in 1967. By 1971 or 1972 most SEC teams were playing black players. (And not for some higher, nobler purpose, either. It was to remain competitive on the national level.)
Posted on 12/5/08 at 2:49 pm to ironsides
quote:
That being said, it is a bit ridiculous that guys like Charlie Strong don't even get an interview.
There's no question that Charlie will be a head coach relatively soon (he's 48). I think he could have taken a smaller school's job, were he interested, particularly one of the Florida directional schools, but is waiting for the right opportunity.
Posted on 12/5/08 at 2:54 pm to Ace Midnight
There shouldnt be forcing to interview a minority. However, there should be programs to encourage cultivation of minority graduate assistants. That is how you increase minority coaches.
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