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re: Could Saban really have the same success at Texas?
Posted on 12/15/13 at 4:52 pm to genro
Posted on 12/15/13 at 4:52 pm to genro
quote:
Why did Saban significantly better in five years at Bama than five years at LSU? How do you justify that? Just dumb luck?
He had a lot more coaching prestige at that point in his career. He wasn't pulling down #1 recruiting classes at LSU early on because he was just some new good coach from Michigan State.
At Alabama, he was a national championship winning coach. Add that fact to Alabama's storied history and you have a lot of success in recruiting and on the field.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 4:54 pm
0
Posted on 12/15/13 at 4:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
the best program in the country of the 2000s was LSU
FWIW IMO PIIHB
FWIW IMO PIIHB
Posted on 12/15/13 at 4:57 pm to molsusports
quote:Yet any of these programs can revive instantly. In fact, Notre Dame has been to several BCS bowls in the time period you mentioned with mediocre coaches. Played for the title last year in fact.
Take some great historical programs like Notre Dame, Michigan, Southern Cal and Alabama and the point is the same. Alabama between Saban and Stallings was nothing worth mentioning. Notre Dame after Holtz departed became a punch line. Michigan at the end of the Carr era and through Rich Rod (and perhaps Hoke now) is not relevant. Southern Cal went through a bad 90s in spite of their program's enormous prestige and intrinsic advantages because of poor coaching. Carroll goes there as a superior recruiter and turns all that around.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 4:57 pm to molsusports
quote:This is so ridiculous. You can look at it by decade or any metric you want. Those programs are elite, but not similar to Alabama over the long term.
Take some great historical programs like Notre Dame, Michigan, Southern Cal and Alabama and the point is the same. Alabama between Saban and Stallings was nothing worth mentioning. Notre Dame after Holtz departed became a punch line. Michigan at the end of the Carr era and through Rich Rod (and perhaps Hoke now) is not relevant. Southern Cal went through a bad 90s in spite of their program's enormous prestige and intrinsic advantages because of poor coaching. Carroll goes there as a superior recruiter and turns all that around.
The part I highlighted is the most absurd. You think it proves some point.
You factored in 6 year of NCAA sanctions mediocrity, and ignored the other 90 years.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:05 pm to genro
Alabama with shula, dubose etc is unremarkable SEC program today. Alabama has historically done a great job of landing great coaches, and under Saban they have built up their facilities to a remarkable degree.
If Nick took off for another school and Alabama replaced him with a dud at head coach Alabama would become mediocre or worse rapidly and you all know that.
If Nick took off for another school and Alabama replaced him with a dud at head coach Alabama would become mediocre or worse rapidly and you all know that.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:07 pm to molsusports
quote:LSU hasn't
If Nick took off for another school and Alabama replaced him with a dud at head coach Alabama would become mediocre or worse rapidly and you all know that.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:09 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Where the frick are you all getting this idea from? Where in history has Texas ever been consistently dominate? Miami dominated football over a longer period of time than Texas could have ever dreamed of. Fact
I fail to see where the frick you think that Bama's football success translates them to being a more coveted football job than Texas is
Typical
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:10 pm to molsusports
quote:Grats on focusing on the exception instead of the rule
Alabama with shula, dubose etc is unremarkable SEC program today.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:15 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Yet any of these programs can revive instantly. In fact, Notre Dame has been to several BCS bowls in the time period you mentioned with mediocre coaches. Played for the title last year in fact.
No they can't, not really. They can generate buzz more easily in their first glimpse of possible success but they don't actually become great just because some of their old friends in the media wish they were for reasons of nostalgia.
Notre Dame finally hired a great coach to return to some relevance (if not the relevance many of their fans in the media would like) but they still lack a good region of recruiting to dominate and are struggling to recruit nationally like they once did. The BCS bowl game they played half a dozen years ago was name inflation without merit (as demonstrated by how LSU destroyed them)
Michigan has real disadvantages compared to other major programs they are up against right now because of recruiting and a competent coach at tOSU to keep them out of the state of Ohio (where they often reach for their quality players). Nebraska is unquestionably a historically excellent program but they similarly face recruiting challenges (without a real "in" to Texas right now) in their new position in the Big 10.
Oklahoma is an outstanding even historically dominant program at times but they depend on recruiting Texas and in spite of the University of Texas' relative woes they are getting their lunch eaten on the recruiting trail by SEC schools among others (and will lack the groceries once again to compete this year against Alabama in the Sugar IMO)
Historical success depended on circumstances. When the circumstances change (ahem, Tennessee) the ability of a formerly dominant program to continue with that trajectory of success is reduced and sometimes nearly eliminated. The thing that would save a Tennessee, or a Nebraska, Oklahoma, Michigan etc is a dominant coach. That's the lynchpin
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:16 pm to The Calvin
quote:You fail to see that all the reasons people think that Texas is so great just didn't suddenly come about, but have been present for years and they didn't do anything spectacular before
I fail to see where the frick you think that Bama's football success translates them to being a more coveted football job than Texas is
Typical
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:19 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
If Nick took off for another school and Alabama replaced him with a dud at head coach Alabama would become mediocre or worse rapidly and you all know that.
LSU hasn't
That's because LSU was very fortunate to find a coach who knows how to maintain a program. Guys who can recruit at that level and win 80% of their games in the toughest conference in the country are very rare. We can credit some of that success to the coordinators if you look back at how 08 and 09 went after some turnover but unquestionably the coaching staff as a whole under Les has been better than any SEC program not named Alabama since Les took over in 2005.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
Wasn't luck, it was Skip Bertman. I'm 100% certain Bertman was so dynamic he would have done it at Bama or Texas as well.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 7:14 pm to MontyFranklyn
Look you backwoods alabama morons are having a hard time with this so let me break it down for you.
Saban would become MORE dominant at Texas than he is at Alabama the same way he is more dominant at Alabama than he was at LSU and was more dominant at LSU than he was at Michigan State.
Texas has more money
Texas has a much larger pool of better trained high school recruits that are born and raised to go to Texas.
Texas has an absolutely simple path to the game every year because they are in the Big 12 and that's built to put them in the game.
So pray he doesn't jump and go to Texas because the next time you see him he'll be standing over whoever the SEC team that goes coach is with his shoe on their throat hoisting another crystal football.
Because he's Nick fricking Saban and that's how he rolls. And without him, you're right back to mediocre and praying Les Miles doesn't take a mercy knee on you with four minutes to go.
Saban would become MORE dominant at Texas than he is at Alabama the same way he is more dominant at Alabama than he was at LSU and was more dominant at LSU than he was at Michigan State.
Texas has more money
Texas has a much larger pool of better trained high school recruits that are born and raised to go to Texas.
Texas has an absolutely simple path to the game every year because they are in the Big 12 and that's built to put them in the game.
So pray he doesn't jump and go to Texas because the next time you see him he'll be standing over whoever the SEC team that goes coach is with his shoe on their throat hoisting another crystal football.
Because he's Nick fricking Saban and that's how he rolls. And without him, you're right back to mediocre and praying Les Miles doesn't take a mercy knee on you with four minutes to go.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 7:23 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Show me evidence historically that they are
Here you are. Texas is 7-1-1 against Alabama. Even your beloved Bear Bryant grabbed his ankles, got broken down like a double barrel shotgun and corn holed by Texas.
LINK
Posted on 12/15/13 at 7:50 pm to faxis
quote:Has always had it and still only 1 title in the past 30 years.
Texas has more money
quote:Has always had it and still only has one title in the past 30 years.
Texas has a much larger pool of better trained high school recruits that are born and raised to go to Texas.
quote:Iron sharpens iron.
So pray he doesn't jump and go to Texas because the next time you see him he'll be standing over whoever the SEC team that goes coach is with his shoe on their throat hoisting another crystal football.
quote:So LSU can maintain after his departure, but Bama will crumble like the fall of Rome?
Because he's Nick fricking Saban and that's how he rolls. And without him, you're right back to mediocre and praying Les Miles doesn't take a mercy knee on you with four minutes to go.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 7:53 pm to RhodeIslandRed
quote:So having a winning record against Bama makes them a historical powerhouse?
Here you are. Texas is 7-1-1 against Alabama. Even your beloved Bear Bryant grabbed his ankles, got broken down like a double barrel shotgun and corn holed by Texas.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 7:58 pm to faxis
I upvoted bc you're right. I don't even know what this thread is about anymore but to answer the OP yes Saban would kill it at UT. There's no reason he wouldn't.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:18 pm to MontyFranklyn
LSU was lucky enough to get Les Miles after Saban so that we could stay relevant. That was lucky as hell for us despite what the average 'down da bayou swampbilly' might think about Miles.
You'd be rolling the dice and no you aren't going to be at the level you are WITH Saban no matter who you get. So your batshit insane fanbase would be apoplectic about tDecline since nobody will ever live up to the bar that Saban has set there because nobody else is as good as he is.
I know you think that mullet A has magical powers and that's all you need but the fact is, you, just like everyone else, have to have a coach that can make it happen. And that kind of coach....
He can do that in any place with the basic tools in place.
You'd be rolling the dice and no you aren't going to be at the level you are WITH Saban no matter who you get. So your batshit insane fanbase would be apoplectic about tDecline since nobody will ever live up to the bar that Saban has set there because nobody else is as good as he is.
I know you think that mullet A has magical powers and that's all you need but the fact is, you, just like everyone else, have to have a coach that can make it happen. And that kind of coach....
He can do that in any place with the basic tools in place.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:53 pm to genro
Pure speculation shows absolutely nothing. Try linking something to support the rap you are throwing out
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:58 pm to genro
Www.realclearsports.com
Here you go genro...googled greatest ncaa football programs and this list of greatest bcs program comes up first. Ut is no 6 in the list but guess who didn't make the list at all?
Here you go genro...googled greatest ncaa football programs and this list of greatest bcs program comes up first. Ut is no 6 in the list but guess who didn't make the list at all?
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