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re: Could Saban really have the same success at Texas?
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:59 pm to faxis
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:59 pm to faxis
quote:There is far more evidence in coaching that proves my point than it does yours. I have listed numerous examples, but no one can prove the opposing point. You and every other poster just assume, but why? Because he did it at Bama? Sure but he didn't do it at MSU or LSU. Because Texas has money and a rich recruiting ground? They have always had it, it just didn't spring up over night and they have been good, but never dominant. So again, besides being butt hurt and wanting Saban to leave so he can't dominant LSU, what other proof is there? There isn't. What is funny is that the same fan base that says that he is the luckiest coach ever while being at Bama now says that he is going to be great at Texas because its Texas. Well they have always been Texas and that hasn't stopped Stoops from owning that arse.
LSU was lucky enough to get Les Miles after Saban so that we could stay relevant. That was lucky as hell for us despite what the average 'down da bayou swampbilly' might think about Miles.
You'd be rolling the dice and no you aren't going to be at the level you are WITH Saban no matter who you get. So your bat shite insane fanbase would be apoplectic about tDecline since nobody will ever live up to the bar that Saban has set there because nobody else is as good as he is.
I know you think that mullet A has magical powers and that's all you need but the fact is, you, just like everyone else, have to have a coach that can make it happen. And that kind of coach....
He can do that in any place with the basic tools in place.
2
Posted on 12/15/13 at 9:17 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:Wow. Seriously?
coaches make the difference. you can't win at an elite level without a great one
Again, Patino. Great at Kentucky, good at Louisville. Huge difference. Spurrier, great at Florida and good at USCe. Holtz, great at ND and bad at USCe, decent at Arky I guess. Not really sure.
First off- you just can't compare football to basketball; in football you win with a program full of developing players. In basketball you win with a bunch of 1 and done superstars. Besides, Pitino just won a title, so that argument is invalid.
Secondly- are you really trying to compare Texas to South Carolina? One program has enormous resources, a lot of conference titles; the other might still have an overall losing record. No, Lou Holtz didn't win at Carolina. What Spurrier has done is amazing. I doubt Saban would have done as well, honestly.
Saban (or Spurrier, or Carroll) at Texas would be a tremendous force to reckon with. Texas has been relevant and able to compete, with a guy nobody considers elite. Give them a real top coach, and they become the next Bama/USC/the U.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 9:21 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:Just for fun- what would Mack Brown have done at Alabama? Do you think he gets 1 BCS title and another appearance in the big game? More?
MontyFranklyn
Posted on 12/15/13 at 9:26 pm to MontyFranklyn
Mack Brown wants to say hi to you for the last SIXTEEN FREAKING YEARS at Texas.
Guess what... the coach is the key to the equation.
You weren't winning a lot of games with Mike Shula... why is that? You trying to tell me Alabama's magical "just win" shite took four years off that just happened to coincide with Mike Shula being the coach?
Stop being a Backwoods Alabama Moron. You are where you are right now because of Nick Saban. He did the same thing with us. He did the same thing with Michigan State. And if he got ahold of the gold mine that is Texas...
God help us all. And yes, that does mean Alabama is Texas' little brother.
Deal with it.
Guess what... the coach is the key to the equation.
You weren't winning a lot of games with Mike Shula... why is that? You trying to tell me Alabama's magical "just win" shite took four years off that just happened to coincide with Mike Shula being the coach?
Stop being a Backwoods Alabama Moron. You are where you are right now because of Nick Saban. He did the same thing with us. He did the same thing with Michigan State. And if he got ahold of the gold mine that is Texas...
God help us all. And yes, that does mean Alabama is Texas' little brother.
Deal with it.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:09 pm to Scoob
quote:Yea, but it took him over 10 years. He had Kentucky at the top in 7. Why? Because it Kentucky. Plus, he did it well before the one and done era. Seniors ruled CBB back then.
First off- you just can't compare football to basketball; in football you win with a program full of developing players. In basketball you win with a bunch of 1 and done superstars. Besides, Pitino just won a title, so that argument is invalid.
quote:I clearly compared Spurrier at Florida vs. Spurrier at USCe
are you really trying to compare Texas to South Carolina?
quote:That goes along with my point about him doing what he is doing because he is at Bama.
I doubt Saban would have done as well, honestly.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:15 pm to faxis
quote:You need to stop being an alligator mouth coon arse.
Stop being a Backwoods Alabama Moron.
quote:Shula was horrible and was an injury away from going undefeated.
You weren't winning a lot of games with Mike Shula.
quote:And Nick Saban is where he is because of Alabama.
You are where you are right now because of Nick Saban.
quote:More coon arse delusions.
And yes, that does mean Alabama is Texas' little brother.
Could Alabama be here without Saban, probably not but Saban couldn't be here without Bama. It was a perfect storm. It is what it is. Much like Cal at Kentucky. The coach can't do it at any school and the school can't get there with just any coach you ficking Boucher moron
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:27 pm to faxis
quote:
And yes, that does mean Alabama is Texas' little brother.
There is no data or evidence backing up these assertions. Sure they have more wins but for years they were in a conference with Rice, SMU, Texas A&M, Arkansas, and Texas Tech. The SWC was a joke. The only team that ever caused Texas any problems was Oklahoma and they were in a different conference until 1996.
And if money bought championships then Texas would have a million of them. They don't. In fact...they've won only one national title since 1971.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:29 pm to RollTide1987
quote:Don't bring historical evidence into this. They will only say it is delusional
There is no data or evidence backing up these assertions. Sure they have more wins but for years they were in a conference with Rice, SMU, Texas A&M, Arkansas, and Texas Tech. The SWC was a joke. The only team that ever caused Texas any problems was Oklahoma and they were in a different conference until 1996.
And if money bought championships then Texas would have a million of them. They don't. In fact...they've won only one national title since 1971.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:50 pm to RollTide1987
the discussion is if saban could have the same success.
to be real for a second, saban probably couldnt have the same success if we re-wound the clock back and put him at Alabama again. got some good bounces.
but tejas has the resources. if they picked up a no non-sense i-hate-losing coach like saban, I have no doubt they would have an impressive run comparable to 2009-2013 Alabama.
fortunately for all of us, we won't have to find out who is right in this debate.
to be real for a second, saban probably couldnt have the same success if we re-wound the clock back and put him at Alabama again. got some good bounces.
but tejas has the resources. if they picked up a no non-sense i-hate-losing coach like saban, I have no doubt they would have an impressive run comparable to 2009-2013 Alabama.
fortunately for all of us, we won't have to find out who is right in this debate.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:58 pm to Tiguar
pretty much
the coach makes the difference and putting the #1 coach in football in the #1 job in football is a no-brainer for success unless you are an Alabama fan really annoyed people think Texas is the better job.
the coach makes the difference and putting the #1 coach in football in the #1 job in football is a no-brainer for success unless you are an Alabama fan really annoyed people think Texas is the better job.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 11:02 pm to molsusports
quote:
the coach makes the difference and putting the #1 coach in football in the #1 job in football is a no-brainer for success unless you are an Alabama fan really annoyed people think Texas is the better job.
I'm not annoyed that people think Texas is the better job at all. In fact, I'd agree with them.
The interesting thing is that some people tend (intentionally or not) to conflate 'better job' with 'better program.'
Texas is a better job. The money, resources and recruiting grounds make that a no-brainer.
Texas is not, however, a better program... by any metric. In fact, given just how good a job Texas is, they've woefully underachieved over their history, and that's taking Darrell Royal's run into account.
ETA: I wasn't specifically talking about you or anyone else, molsu.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 12/15/13 at 11:12 pm to cyde
quote:
The interesting thing is that some people tend (intentionally or not) to conflate 'better job' with 'better program.'
yeah, when it comes to Alabama fans they conflate "better program" with "better job"
but that's generally not what people are talking about or at least IMO that's a different discussion that should be "best program ever" or "most success in history to date" or some-such.
Better job =/= Better (historically successful) program
Posted on 12/15/13 at 11:16 pm to molsusports
quote:
yeah, when it comes to Alabama fans they conflate "better program" with "better job"
People on both sides of the debate do, actually.
quote:
but that's generally not what people are talking about or at least IMO that's a different discussion that should be "best program ever" or "most success in history to date" or some-such.
I know, and I should have been more specific in disclaiming myself. I wasn't referring to the discussion in this thread. It was simply something I've noticed over time.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 11:20 pm to cyde
quote:
yeah, when it comes to Alabama fans they conflate "better program" with "better job"
People on both sides of the debate do, actually.
I'm sure some do on both sides but it is an unusual thing for an Alabama fan, Notre Dame fan, Michigan fan, etc to make the distinction if they are comparing their program with a program with an inferior history of success.
I made that point several pages back using Florida schools in the 80s versus other college programs that had more historical success but the herp derp was too strong from the Bama fans enraged by the "program" versus "job" distinction to get anything more than a bunch of
Posted on 12/15/13 at 11:23 pm to molsusports
quote:
I made that point several pages back using Florida schools in the 80s versus other college programs that had more historical success but the herp derp was too strong from the Bama fans enraged by the "program" versus "job" distinction to get anything more than a bunch of
shite, brother, you've been around long enough to know to expect
Posted on 12/16/13 at 12:10 am to RollTide1987
You trying to tell me Bear Bryant at Texas instead of Alabama wouldn't have changed you into Georgia?
Nick Saban at Texas instead of Bama wouldn't have made you looking up at South Carolina?
Get real gump.
You've been very lucky to have some of the best coaches that ever played the game. Yes, that coincides very well with a culture that's basically a football cult looking for a messiah half the time. Ya got me there.
Alabama is no more special than any other team with a fanatical fan/alumni/booster base. You've just either gotten lucky or have very smart selection committees for your coaching searches one in three times. Which is better than most can pull off.
But don't act like you're Texas. You switch coaches with them and the results would be the same for you as they were for them OR WORSE since they are in the Big 12 which is basically a private hunting preserve so that they can get to championships.
Nick Saban at Texas instead of Bama wouldn't have made you looking up at South Carolina?
Get real gump.
You've been very lucky to have some of the best coaches that ever played the game. Yes, that coincides very well with a culture that's basically a football cult looking for a messiah half the time. Ya got me there.
Alabama is no more special than any other team with a fanatical fan/alumni/booster base. You've just either gotten lucky or have very smart selection committees for your coaching searches one in three times. Which is better than most can pull off.
But don't act like you're Texas. You switch coaches with them and the results would be the same for you as they were for them OR WORSE since they are in the Big 12 which is basically a private hunting preserve so that they can get to championships.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 12:13 am to faxis
quote:
You've been very lucky to have some of the best coaches that ever played the game. Yes, that coincides very well with a culture that's basically a football cult looking for a messiah half the time. Ya got me there.
So, basically no different than Michigan, Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Nebraska or Ohio State.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 12:33 am to cyde
and with better recruiting grounds than Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska, and Oklahoma
Posted on 12/16/13 at 8:32 am to MontyFranklyn
Trust me Bama fans...its him, not you!
Posted on 12/16/13 at 8:50 am to genro
quote:
We're trying to gauge a national consciousness. It's a pointless argument. I will say Alabama is a national brand more so than you think. There are Bama-themed bars in every major city in the country.
I travel a good bit and have never seen a "Bama-themed" bar
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