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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS

Posted on 12/20/13 at 4:47 pm to
Posted by TaxmanMSU
a glasscase of emotion
Member since Oct 2012
4217 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 4:47 pm to
I see, said the blind man to the deaf man..


Would there happen to be a flo-chart of all characters, their deaths, who was claimed to have killed/poisoned them, and who actually was behind said killings, and then who was behind them influencing them...and so on and so forth..? It's hard to keep up with!

Of course, the official chart would be much different than the crackpot chart..
Posted by Cosmo
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
132559 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 4:55 pm to
Any crackpot theories on the black cat that hangs around the Red Keep? One imhave sen out there is that when Rhaenys died she warged into the cat and lives on to frick with Lannisters.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 5:19 pm to
quote:

Gregor is kind of a monster though. You have to have some semblance of humanity tobe an alpha


Would you consider Sandor to be an alpha or a beta?
Posted by Cosmo
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
132559 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 5:24 pm to
Sandor is a tough one, he cant really be either kinda like Tyrion
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 5:29 pm to
Yeah; I imagine if Gregor wasn't his brother and hadn't screwed him up, and wasn't burned that he could be an Alpha.

And I think if Tyrion wasn't a dwarf/was normal height he could possibly be one; he'd basically be Tywin 2.0.
Posted by Analyze That
ThereAndBackAgain
Member since Nov 2009
19867 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 6:54 pm to
quote:

Yeah; I imagine if Gregor wasn't his brother and hadn't screwed him up, and wasn't burned that he could be an Alpha.


He'd be a badass knight
quote:

And I think if Tyrion wasn't a dwarf/was normal height he could possibly be one; he'd basically be Tywin 2.0.



Absolutely, jamie wold be a fool who was good with a sword and cersei a slut in their fathers eyes.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Any crackpot theories on the black cat that hangs around the Red Keep? One imhave sen out there is that when Rhaenys died she warged into the cat and lives on to frick with Lannisters.


Something tells me that once Aegon takes the throne, the cat will outright attack him while Aegon is king, and will lead at least one character to believe this isn't the true Aegon, linking the fact that the black cat and Rhaenrys cat are one in the same.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 7:45 pm to
quote:

jamie wold be a fool who was good with a sword and cersei a slut in their fathers eyes


I actually think Tywin thought that about Cersei in the years before his death. Out of all his children, I think he had the lowest opinion of Cersei. I think he once had a close and nice relationship with Cersei, but once Aerys refused Tywin's attempted betrothal, I think he largely blamed it on Cersei for having a bitch personality and actually not being good enough for Rhaegar. Even after marrying a king, Tywin knew Cersei was a bitter second prize for Robert and that he only married her because of Tywin's own power.

Once Cersei got power and he heard about the accusations, Tywin could no longer deny internally that Cersei was a stupid, crazy whore. He forced himself to think that Jaime was a young Tywin who was better at a sword and Tyrion was not his father's son, but even he couldn't deny Cersei's madness. Sure Tywin hated Tyrion more, but he still had absolute sustain for Cersei, since I think he hoped for her to be a younger version of Joanna. The only time Tywin confided in Cersei was when she was like 7 and he told her that she would be Rhaegar's wife. Afterwards Tywin completely ignores her, while Tyrion eventually becomes Tywin's de facto right hand.
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 7:45 pm to
So what is this cat theory about? Never heard of it before.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 8:03 pm to
I didn't write all this, but I think its important to get all the events of the Tourney at Harrenhal:

Sometime before Tourney of Harrenhal
-Defiance at Duskendale, King Aerys made extra suspicious and crazy (276 AC or 277 AC)
-Brandon Stark betrothed to Catelyn Tully
-Lyanna Stark betrothed to Robert Baratheon
-Jamie Lannister planned to be betrothed to Lysa Tully
-Cersie Lannister loves Jaime and hears Jaime might be married to Lysa Tully, so she suggests to Aerys that Jaime would be a good choice for Kingsguard (280 AL)

Tourney of Harrenhal
-Oswell Whent of the Kingsguard goes and talks to his brother Lord of Harrenhal... Tourney of Harrenhal is planned (280 AL)
-Lord Whent in honour of his daughter and to show off his house's power holds the greatest tourney of its time and perhaps ever
-The tourney was spread over ten days in 281 AL
-There were 5 days of Jousting, a seven-sided melee in the ancient style, an archery contest, an axe-throwing contest, a horse race, a tourney of singers and a mummer show

Known People in attendance:
-King Aerys II, High Lords Robert Baratheon (Storm Lord), Mace Tyrell (Rose Lord) and Jon Arryn along with Rhaegar Targaryen, Elia Martell, Prince Oberyn Martell (Red Snake), Lewyn Martell, Gerold Hightower, Arthur Dayne, Ashara Dayne (Laughing Purple Eyes), Barriston Selmy, Jonothor Darry, Oswell Whent, Jaime Lannister, Lord Jon Connington (Lord of the Griffins), Lord Yohn Royce, Ser Richard Lonmouth (Skulls and Kisses), Lord Eon Hunter, Brandon Stark, Eddard Stark, Benjen Stark, Lyanna Stark, Howland Reed; Some Dustins (Barrowton), Hornwoods (Moose), Mormonts (Bear) and Manderlys (Mermen), Freys (Two Towers), Blounts (Porcupine) and Haighs (Pitchfork)
[Hand of the King, Tywin Lannister not in attendance, King Aerys and Tywin were not getting along, Aerys was distrustful of Tywin ever since Duskendale]
[Queen Rhaella and baby Viserys were not in attendance]
[Rickard Stark not in attendance]

Opening Day/Night Pre Jousting
-King Aerys II attends tourney only because Varys warns him that his son Rhaegar arranged the tournament as a pretext to meet with several high lords to discuss removing Aerys as King
-[Speculation: Most all of the major houses are represented at this tourney, Varys was probably right about this being some sort of meeting between Lords]
-Jaime Lannister is raised to Kingsguard, but is sent back to King's Landing and not allowed to compete in tourney
-Howland Reed beat up and bullied by 3 squires from houses Frey, Blount and Haigh. Lyanna Stark comes to his rescue and befriends him
-Howland meets the other Starks, Brandon the oldest and wildest, Eddard the quiet one, and Benjen the young Stark.
-At a feast during the tourney, Lyanna Stark listens to Prince Rhaegar perform a sad beautiful song and cries, Benjen mocks Lyanna, she pours wine over his head
-A Night's Watch member tries to recruit people at the feast
-Robert Baratheon has a drinking contest with Ser Richard Lonmouth
-Ashara Dayne dances with a kingsguard (Probably her brother Arthur Dayne), Oberyn Martell, Jon Connington and also Eddard Stark after Brandon spoke to her first

The Jousting:
-Lord Whent's daughter reigned as the Queen of Love and Beauty and she had her 4 brothers and Uncle, Oswell Whent, as champions to defend her crown
-All 4 Whent brothers were defeated on the first day of Jousting
-By the morning of the 2nd day, a Freys knight (Two Towers), a Blount knight (Porcupine) and a Haigh knight (Pitchfork) were champions
-At the end of the 2nd day, a mysterious knight appeared on the lists and challenged the Frey Knight, Blount Knight and Haigh Knight.
-The mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face
-Either Lyanna or Howland poses as the mysterious Knight of the Laughing Tree and defeats three knights [Not fact but makes sense, my personal guess is Lyanna]
-Then the Knight of the Laughing tree tells the knights to scold their squires and teach them honor and then returns the knights' horses and armor
-Robert Baratheon and Ser Richard Lonmouth say they will unmask the Knight of the Laughing Tree and Aerys is suspicious and think the mysterious knight is an enemy
-At the beginning of the 3rd day the Knight of the Laughing Tree does not appear, only the two undefeated champions show up to the trumpets call
-King Aerys was wroth and sends his son Prince Rhaegar to search for the mysterious Knight
-Rhaegar only finds the painted shield hanging in an abandoned tree, [Speculation: Rhaegar deduces it was Lyanna Stark].
-[Speculation: Rhaegar becomes intrigued with Lyanna
-Prince Rhaegar defeats Yohn Royce, Brandon Stark, Arthur Dayne and Barriston Selmy in the final and wins the Jousting
-Rhaegar doesn't usually win, so this is uncharacteristic, Dayne and Selmy are very good
-As champion Rhaegar gets to name names the Queen of Love and Beauty,
-Rhaegar passes by his wife Elia Martell and names Lyanna Stark the Queen of Love and Beauty
-Robert Baratheon gets irritated/angry because he is betrothed to Lyanna and is very smitten with her
-Brandon Stark and Catelyn Tully's betrothal may have been publicly announced at the tournament sometime


Shortly after Tourney of Harrenhal:
-Tywin Lannister steps down as Hand of the King, angry at King Aerys for putting Jaime on Kingsguard, replaced by Owen Merryweatherer
-In Riverrun, Littlefinger challenges Brandon Stark for Catelyn Tully's hand in marriage, Brandon beats up Littlefinger
-Rhaeger runs off/abducts with Lyanna...
Posted by Analyze That
ThereAndBackAgain
Member since Nov 2009
19867 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

-Either Lyanna or Howland poses as the mysterious Knight of the Laughing Tree and defeats three knights [Not fact but makes sense, my personal guess is Lyanna]


I like this one and agree. Lyanna would do that.


quote:

-Rhaegar only finds the painted shield hanging in an abandoned tree, [Speculation: Rhaegar deduces it was Lyanna Stark].
-[Speculation: Rhaegar becomes intrigued with Lyanna
-Rhaegar passes by his wife Elia Martell and names Lyanna Stark the Queen of Love and Beauty


And couple that with

quote:

“But that was the tourney when he crowned Lyanna Stark
as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia
was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to
the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed.
How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so
ill?”
“It is not for such as me to say what might have been in
your brother’s heart, Your Grace. The Princess Elia was a
good and


It would seem that Lyanna really was quite the prize.

On another note, Arya is the character most like Lyanna, will there be any more similarities in their arcs?
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

On another note, Arya is the character most like Lyanna, will there be any more similarities in their arcs?


I don't expect her to fall in love with anyone or to drive a kingdom apart. I'd say its about 50/50 with her dying, but near 100% of Arya not getting a happy ending. I'd love it if Arya killed Varys in the series Epilogue.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
45395 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 9:50 pm to
quote:

Known People in attendance:


The Tourney is hosted by the Whent's who's liege lord is Tully's, yet no Tully was listed? We know that Catelyn wasn't there but either Hoster or the Blackfish would have had to be in attendance. That would be the equivalent of the Mormonts hosting a tourney win which the King came but no Starks.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 9:51 pm to
I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but does anyone else think that LF is actually Sweetrobin's biological father? Jon Arryn was married 3 times, and only had stillborns. Lysa's had numerous miscarriages, and despite her abortion, I think it had to do with Jon Arryn having a deficient seed. When Sweetrobin was born, LF was almost certainly in King's Landing already, and I think conceived a child with her. I think it's crossed LF's mind that SweetRobin may be his, but he simply doesn't give a damn and is going to kill him regardless once Sansa is in place.

Also there is this quote:

quote:

I want us to make another child, a brother for Robert or a sweet little daughter.
This post was edited on 12/20/13 at 10:11 pm
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 9:52 pm to
quote:

The Tourney is hosted by the Whent's who's liege lord is Tully's, yet no Tully was listed? We know that Catelyn wasn't there but either Hoster or the Blackfish would have had to be in attendance. That would be the equivalent of the Mormonts hosting a tourney win which the King came but no Starks.


Those are just the confirmed people that were there. Guessing if Hoster or Blackfish were there is a mere guess.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
45395 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 9:57 pm to
quote:

Ashara Dayne (Laughing Purple Eyes)


who do you think knocked her up?
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 10:11 pm to
quote:

who do you think knocked her up?


No clue
Posted by ladytiger118
Member since Aug 2009
20922 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 10:41 pm to
My thoughts:

1) I've heard about the Sweetrobin being Littlefinger and Lysa's child theory before, and I think it's definitely possible. Lysa could've pulled a Cersei and drank Moon Tea when she slept with Jon Arryn, and purposefully make herself 'fertile' when sleeping with Petyr. After all, Petyr came to King's Landing after being in Gulltown, so it's plausible that Sweetrobin is young enough to where the timelines could match up with Littlefinger being in King's Landing.

2) I think that Ashara Dayne was 'dishonored' by Brandon Stark. Sure, Brandon got Ned to dance with her, but Ned had zero game because he was too shy/quiet to ask her to dance. Brandon was a manwhore like Bobby B so it's possible that he seduced Ashara. Plus Barristan says a "Stark" dishonored her, but he never says anything negative about Ned and respects Ned. Which is why I think Brandon was the one who slept with her; plus he also took Barbrey Dustin's maidenhead, so he was no stranger to sleeping with maidens.
Posted by Analyze That
ThereAndBackAgain
Member since Nov 2009
19867 posts
Posted on 12/20/13 at 11:52 pm to
quote:

Then it was time for gifts. it was traditional in the Reach to
give presents to bride and groom on the morning of their
wedding; on the morrow they would receive more presents
as a couple, but today’s tokens were for their separate
persons.

Joffrey received

a red gold brooch wrought in the shape of
a scorpion from the Dornishman, Prince Oberyn;



I'll take poisoned items for $1000, Alex!
Posted by Cosmo
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
132559 posts
Posted on 12/21/13 at 1:23 am to
Ashara dayne was a ho
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