re: How do you help an alcoholic friend

I actually agree with your message but you could use a little tact. Being an a-hole about it isn't productive.

A lot of evangelical twelve steppers will try to claim a monopoly on sobriety and treatment. And to their credit, a lot of level-headed ones will say "it works for me" and leave it at that. But the twelfth step does demand proselytizing so it can come off as cultish.

I'd say that most of the time the 12 step stuff does more harm than good. If your friend is the type of personality that can benefit from that stuff, then he'll find his own way there. If he's like the majority of addicts then there's a lot of options out there that are much more successful (they just don't have the same PR force that AA does).

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well shite....I do this just about every day. no one considers me to be an alcoholic

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You are an alcoholic if you are drinking 14 beers a day.

Well, shite, I didn't expect to get such flak in this thread, but since multiple posters seem to have gotten angry with me, I must have exercised poor tact.

At no point did I ever say not to help a friend who comes to you needing help with alcohol abuse. My main point was that it seems unwise to accept the role of enforcer when going out drinking with a friend who clearly has a problem abusing alcohol. For example, suppose your friend tells you "stop me at five drinks." Then he goes for his 6th drink, and you tell him not to do it, and he does it anyway. Then what?

That's what I'm thinking about. It might be better to just not go out with the dude in the first place. If that makes everyone think that I'm a bitter old person with no friends, then I guess I got mad and said things the wrong way in this thread. My apologies.

And I also shouldn't have included that post-script about "rock bottom." It's just a personal pet peeve of mine, because I happened to enter into some problems in my life where I kept thinking things couldn't possibly get any weirder or worse, and then it kept happening anyway. So I get emotional about that phrase sometimes, but I should have just kept it to myself, because although there was a phase in my life where I was somewhat of a problem drinker, I've never been an alcoholic or an addict to anything.

What do I know about it? Well, I recently worked for an addiction treatment center doing research for them. I have a sibling who entered a AA program, and even though I don't think addiction was the real problem, the group dynamics seems to help. (So I am pretty neutral in terms of arguments for and against AA.) And I have had friends who started doing too much drugs and drinking, one of whom eventually killed himself, and others who have turned their lives around.

On the flip side, when I was in undergrad I did have people tell me I needed to stop drinking so much, and did have my keys taken away from me a couple of times, which was for the best.

So that's what I know based on my own experience, and because I don't want to derail this thread into a back-and-forth, I'll just leave with the advice I made in my first post in this thread, but this time without the unnecessary post-script:

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While I don't really understand the whole phenomenon of being an addict to something, I would say:

#1. Suggest he go to AA meetings or else take some other form of decisive action.
#2. Don't be one of the persons in his life who encourages his bad behavior.
#3. Try your best to keep a healthy distance from him, while at the same time not disowning or embarrassing him.

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If somebody comes across the arguments in this thread and has them shed light on a situation for them, whether in agreement with what I was trying to say, or in disagreement with what I was trying to say, then more power to them. It's a serious problem for many people, and if you are a friend, you should care about trying steps that might help someone in need.

Very well then.

There's some great advice in here, thank you guys .

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Until he gets sick and tired of being sick and tired, nothing will happen

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The physical toll on his body has been a lot worse recently: Strept 3 times, mono, and psoriasis all within the past 3 months where he never had any of them before. Also, I know he's dealing with a lot of family issues such as his parents getting divorced and family members with cancer.

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There was no great moment of clarity that helped me stop. I did do something horribly embarrassing in October, and it was about the one billionth time that I did something horrible and/or embarrassing while drunk, so I stopped for about a week as a result of that. I always knew I had a problem, but then I realized that even when people would "go out," it was about hanging out and doing something fun first and about alcohol second. For me, it was always about how drunk everyone could get, and what we would actually do would be secondary to that. Once I would start drinking, I couldn't stop until I was passed out somewhere. I also had some health problems that doctors said were probably related to drinking (at age 25). I still drink from time to time, but now I'm mostly in complete control. It's still weird and I have a hard time believing it's true.

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Jesus, sounds 100% like myself.

I was a major binge drinker from 15/16 to 22.

HAD to blackout or it just wasnt fun. Always "that" guy, but I didnt give a frick...I got attention and I was "good at drinking". I would apologize to everyone the next day, rest for a few, then hit it again.

Had some anxiety issues, doctor put me on a prescription medication. He asked how much I drank, I lied and replied "once a month". The meds were not to be mixed with alcohol.

A few days later (Dec 23, 2008), went to the bar, took my meds and flipped the frick out around 2:30am.

Ended up in a treatment center about 4am. Woke up PISSED. Stayed in there for about 2 weeks and even had to spend Christmas in there (horrible feeling).

AA wasnt my style and neither was the "higher power" approach. Im a hard headed motherfricker. I dont like help, and will dig myself into the ground until I can do something on my own.

It is 2014, I am 27 years old married with a 7 month old daughter.

Always happy, no.... But somewhere down the road I learned to deal with stuff the right way.

Not perfect either, I have embarrassed myself twice during these 6 years thinking I could drink responsibly, only to blackout.


Most days I dont think about it. I am almost embarrassed to say that I have had a few drinks in the past weeks, but 2 beer maximum was my limit.

The bottom line is that it gets progressively worse for him. I somewhat agree with Doc in that regard. I won't sit here and debate semantics on it though. Everybody's bottom is different.

If he is a true alkie, you only think you know how much he drinks. Nobody can decide for him whether or not he is one. Only he can make that call. He at least has an idea if he is or isn't. He can always do a little investigating to find out. AA is a good start.

ETA: offer him a ride to his first meeting.

A little Chemical Dependency 101 here:

An addict cannot control their level of intake.

Then:

They cannot be allowed to use the substance AT ALL!

A parallel to a second person monitoring the addict's intake would be allowing a pediophile to only have one kid per month.

For a true addict, the offending substance is off the table for any use by them for the rest of their life.

If you think differently, you do not truly understand chemical addiction. To publicly hold differently is akin to saying the Earth is flat. People will rightfully know you to be ignorant.

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I'll mention the AA meetings to him and gauge his interest in that. I'm just trying to help prevent him from hitting rock bottom before he actually does.

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Did he mention this to you while drunk? If so take with a grain of salt. It is a step, but a small one. There is plenty of help out there.

Is he physically dependent? Meaning does he have symptoms if he stops? Like shaking in the morning etc. Or is he defining alcoholism as having negative consequences and he can not stop. They are different. Both equally serious but treated differently. "drying out" needs to be done in a facility or with some supervision. He may not even know if he has withdrawal symptoms cause he has never really stopped.

If he has insurance urge him to go to a 28 day in-patient program. This allows him to dry out as well as start treatment. However, in all fairness, the professional literature is somewhat pessimistic on treatment as the relapse rate is fairly high. I have seen some actually go through it and stay on the wagon. However, for everyone of those, I have also seen probably about nine fall off the wagon.