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Message
re: Ugly Data For Apple Shows How Desperately It Needs iPhone 6 To Be A Hit
Posted on 8/20/14 at 4:49 am to stendulkar
Posted on 8/20/14 at 4:49 am to stendulkar
I really don't have a dog in fight, but if I had a dollar for every
or
from an apple hater in this thread, I could afford an android phone.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 6:44 am to Korkstand
quote:
Except for the fact that Apple continues to lose share. These numbers come out every quarter, you know.
Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware of the fact that Apple sells more iPhones YoY.
The article even admits that the majority of android's gains in market share are on developing countries...places where iPhones aren't available or are comparatively expensive.
Apple is making a conscious decision not to compete in these markets, but in the markets they are focusing on they're doing just fine. I don't think Apple execs are as freaked out as you or the author would have us believe.
quote:
The point of the article is the fact that Apple's market share losses are accelerating.
You sure? I didn't see anything about an acceleration.
quote:
The userbase is shrinking in relation to Android. This has implications beyond next quarter or next year's profits.
What are the implications? Higher stock price? YoY sales growth? This is what happened every other year that Apples market share has shrunk.
You can't possibly think it's going to go to zero right?
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 6:46 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 6:59 am to TigerRob20
quote:
Most android phones are cheap. There are a ton of people in developing countries buying cell phones. Since they can't afford $1000+ iPhones in those countries, they buy the cheap, shitty android phones. Most are literally a step above feature phones, and are not comparable to a Galaxy S4 or whatever is the Android flavor of the week.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:29 am to Korkstand
quote:
...in. relation. to. Android.
This has to be the ultimate in reading comprehension failure.
Quantities don't shrink or grow "in relation" to anything but themselves, reading comprehension has nothing to do with it. Percentages can change as well, but again have to be taken within context. Is the overall population growing, shrinking? What all is being included in the numbers? Does Kia selling more cars say anything, at all, about Mercedes?
as far as "market share losses" are concerned, you again have to consider growth of the overall market. If a hypothetical market is adding 10,000 units per quarter, and company A is capturing new customers at a faster rate, company's B isn't exactly "losing" market share. For all we know, these are clients company B isn't even interested in.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 7:34 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 8:05 am to ForeLSU
quote:
Quantities don't shrink or grow "in relation" to anything but themselves, reading comprehension has nothing to do with it. Percentages can change as well, but again have to be taken within context. Is the overall population growing, shrinking? What all is being included in the numbers? Does Kia selling more cars say anything, at all, about Mercedes?
as far as "market share losses" are concerned, you again have to consider growth of the overall market. If a hypothetical market is adding 10,000 units per quarter, and company A is capturing new customers at a faster rate, company's B isn't exactly "losing" market share. For all we know, these are clients company B isn't even interested in.
Thank You.
Then there's this--
quote:
As Competitors Slum It, Apple Prepares Android-Crushing iPhone 6
By: Rocco Pendola Follow| 08/19/14 - 08:00 AM EDT
inShare
11 CommentLink
Despite what feels like ubiquity in the United States and relationships with less than third-party retailers, Apple remains an aspirational brand. The forthcoming release of a larger-screen iPhone 6 will help further illustrate not merely what this means, but how it functions, on the ground, with many consumers.
When IDC releases the marketshare numbers, the media rarely, if ever, provides analysis and opinion on what they actually mean. Instead they spew surface scratches and intuitive statements that don't hold up to the slightest sniff.
Apple has no problem seeing Google dominate global marketshare numbers via Android. All Apple cares about is making its margin on hardware sales and producing the highest quality, highest-end smartphones available anywhere. That's why -- even with the 5c -- there is no "low-end" iPhone. That would defeat the purpose of Apple's superior strategy from the practical standpoint of its bottom line and its relationship with the consumer.
Two types of customers will matter to Apple when it releases iPhone 6 later this year. The massive numbers of folks due for upgrades from iPhones 4, 4s and 5:
At Verizon (VZ) , 56% of iPhone customers still own the 4 or 4s. Twenty-four percent still pack iPhone 5. I'm part of the latter group, and will be eligible for and fully intend to upgrade to iPhone 6 come late summer/early fall.
At AT&T (T) , 42% are on iPhone 4 or 4s; 25% on iPhone 5.
At Sprint (S) , 47% use iPhone 4 or 4s; 24% carry iPhone 5.
That, in and of itself, represents a landslide. But the second group of consumers really highlights the brilliance of Apple's strategy.
This second group consists of the folks who could afford an iPhone but opted not to get one because they could not get past the relatively small screen size and those who told themselves it made financial sense to go with something less expensive than an iPhone. The larger screen -- and whatever else Apple introduces with iPhone 6 -- might be enough to push these people over the edge. To entice them to stretch the budget or spend a little bit more than they probably should. To choose iPhone 6 on or off contract even though they opted not to on a previous release, quite possibly for fiscal reasons.
Apple could have gone to these consumers over the years with a mix of less expensive, low-end options and a variety of screen sizes. Instead, Steve Jobs and Tim Cook opted not to slum it like Android's hardware partners. Apple stayed true to itself by not going after the plentiful low-hanging fruit. It chose to start at the top of the tree, dangling fruit to the people who, over time, make the choice to make what amounts to the switch from something else to iOS.
Read More: Apple Has a Problem and There's Only One Way to Fix It
Apple's strategy is such that it doesn't require every single piece of low-hanging fruit to bite. It doesn't even need a majority. It just needs a few here and there, especially this time around. Converting just a relative few in addition to present Apple customers will be significant. Because, coupled with the flood of iPhone 6 upgrades, Apple is setting up for what could be its strongest holiday quarter ever.
Follow @mynameisrocco
LINK
Posted on 8/20/14 at 8:20 am to TigerGman
quote:
I'm part of the latter group, and will be eligible for and fully intend to upgrade to iPhone 6 come late summer/early fall.
Seems unbiased
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:01 am to TigerGman
Here is my best CAD703X impression:
quote:quote:
@mynameisrocco
OMFG LULZ you quoted someone with the twitter handle @mynameisrocco. This completely undermines your entire argument. I knew you were dumb, but not this dumb!Oh and that guy has an iPhone. Everyone knows only idiots have iPhones! God I'm so superior to everyone that's not exactly like me. DAE hate Amazon Prime?
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:03 am to CAD703X
quote:
Seems unbiased
accurate too
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:09 am to dreaux
quote:Have you even read the thread?
You clearly don't understand what "desperation" is for a corporation.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:15 am to colorchangintiger
here's my colorchange impression
colorchange: 'here's a great article written by an apple fanatic praising apple as proof of apple's greatness'
cad: 'hey, thats guy's an apple fanatic'
colorchange: 'STOP CRITICIZING MY ARTICLES NAPOLEON'
colorchange: 'here's a great article written by an apple fanatic praising apple as proof of apple's greatness'
cad: 'hey, thats guy's an apple fanatic'
colorchange: 'STOP CRITICIZING MY ARTICLES NAPOLEON'
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 9:17 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:23 am to CAD703X
sick burn.
How come no one is posting articles like "Google is desperate to increase ad revenue" or "Microsoft desperately needs better cloud services" or "Samsung is desperately in need of more high end phone sales" or "HTC desperately needs to convert positive reviews into actual sales" or "CAD is desperate to push his distorted tech opinions on random internet users"
Anyone care to bet on the first weekend of iPhone sales this year? 13 million in the first weekend sound like a good number? I won't post on the tech board for a year if I'm wrong.
How come no one is posting articles like "Google is desperate to increase ad revenue" or "Microsoft desperately needs better cloud services" or "Samsung is desperately in need of more high end phone sales" or "HTC desperately needs to convert positive reviews into actual sales" or "CAD is desperate to push his distorted tech opinions on random internet users"
Anyone care to bet on the first weekend of iPhone sales this year? 13 million in the first weekend sound like a good number? I won't post on the tech board for a year if I'm wrong.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:28 am to ZereauxSum
quote:The implication is that the smaller the iOS market gets in comparison to Android, the less attractive it looks as a platform. It wasn't very long ago that iOS always got an app first, and the apps were higher quality. The trend has been moving in Android's favor, and both platforms get apps around the same time now, and the quality is about equal. iOS losing market share isn't doing anything to reverse that trend.
What are the implications? Higher stock price? YoY sales growth? This is what happened every other year that Apples market share has shrunk.
quote:Of course not. Damn I feel like this is the poli board, where everyone argues against what they want you to say rather than what you actually say.
You can't possibly think it's going to go to zero right?
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:51 am to ForeLSU
quote:Except in the case of market share, which is what this thread is about.
Quantities don't shrink or grow "in relation" to anything but themselves
quote:Right, and the context is that the smaller the iOS market is compared to Android, the less attractive it is to app developers. A larger market drives more and higher quality app development... it creates positive feedback. iOS has a large and growing userbase, but if it can't keep up with the larger and faster-growing Android userbase, the developer interest will be (and has been) affected.
Percentages can change as well, but again have to be taken within context.
quote:Nice attempt at a jab, there. But no, it doesn't, and Android gaining market share doesn't say anything about iOS, either. What I'm saying is that if Kia were to start making cars of the quality of Mercedes, and market them at the same people, that the relatively large base of happy Kia customers would have an upgrade path that favors Kia's higher end models, and Mercedes would have a problem.
Does Kia selling more cars say anything, at all, about Mercedes?
quote:Uh, that is exactly what losing market share means.
as far as "market share losses" are concerned, you again have to consider growth of the overall market. If a hypothetical market is adding 10,000 units per quarter, and company A is capturing new customers at a faster rate, company's B isn't exactly "losing" market share.
quote:If Apple isn't interested in the customers who are buying high-end Android phones (and even low-end ones, why the frick wouldn't they want to sell as many phones as possible?), then they are doing a severe disservice to their shareholders. Apple is very interested, and to suggest otherwise is pure ignorance.
For all we know, these are clients company B isn't even interested in.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:14 am to Korkstand
quote:
If Apple isn't interested in the customers who are buying high-end Android phones (and even low-end ones, why the frick wouldn't they want to sell as many phones as possible?), then they are doing a severe disservice to their shareholders. Apple is very interested, and to suggest otherwise is pure ignorance.
They are interested in the customers who are buying the high end Android phones, as evidenced by the internal slides CAD posted, and by them coming out with a bigger screen size.
quote:
(and even low-end ones, why the frick wouldn't they want to sell as many phones as possible?),
because it's not worth it to them. It's a fools game. No one is criticizing Mercedes or BMW or Louis Vuitton or Tiffany's for not trying to cater to the lowest common denominator. Burberry tried to back in the 90s and it nearly bankrupt the company. It destroyed their image and quality and lets face it, Apple is about image and quality as much as they are about everything else. Why would they start making $100 off contract low quality smartphones where they only make $5 a phone when that would destroy them at their high end where they make $300 a phone?
Again, look at Samsungs quarterly reports the past few quarters. That's exactly why Apple has not chased the low end.
It's amazing to me that people still think that Apple is on the verge of collapse & that people still question their tactics and practices when in 17 years they went from 90 days to bankruptcy to the most successful publicly traded company in the history of man.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 10:17 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:18 am to Korkstand
quote:
A larger market drives more and higher quality app development... it creates positive feedback. iOS has a large and growing userbase, but if it can't keep up with the larger and faster-growing Android userbase, the developer interest will be (and has been) affected.
quote:
I'm doubting there's much a market for apps in third world countries where Android bottom feeders are selling $25.00 phones..
Apple simply isn;t interested in that market. So your expanding share numbers have to take that into account. You assume a Kia buyer will later buy a nicer Kia. You don't take into account he may never be able to afford a nicer Kia.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:19 am to Korkstand
quote:
The implication is that the smaller the iOS market gets in comparison to Android, the less attractive it looks as a platform. It wasn't very long ago that iOS always got an app first, and the apps were higher quality. The trend has been moving in Android's favor, and both platforms get apps around the same time now, and the quality is about equal. iOS losing market share isn't doing anything to reverse that trend.
Don't iOS apps on average generate more revenue than their android equivalents? If I were a developer, I would continue to build apps on the platform where I can make the most money, not the most popular one.
quote:
Of course not. Damn I feel like this is the poli board, where everyone argues against what they want you to say rather than what you actually say.
I'm really not trying to put words in your mouth, but you keep saying things like, "there are implications" without specifically saying what will happen.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:27 am to ZereauxSum
quote:
Don't iOS apps on average generate more revenue than their android equivalents? If I were a developer, I would continue to build apps on the platform where I can make the most money, not the most popular one.
Between June 2013 and June 2014, Apple paid out $10 billion to developers. In the same time frame, Google paid out $5 billion to developers. But yeah, all consumers are equal.
Apple Has Paid $20 Billion To iOS Devs, Half Of It In The Past Year
The company announced the latest milestone at its I/O developer conference, adding that it has paid out more than $5bn in revenues to Android app developers in the last year alone.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 10:30 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:32 am to colorchangintiger
quote:Because, as has already been pointed out in this thread, none of these stories are as high-profile as a new iPhone release. But it's not too hard to find articles pointing out that Google desperately needs to fend off Facebook, or that Microsoft desperately needs to do a whole lot of shite, or that Samsung and HTC desperately need to boost profits.
How come no one is posting articles like "Google is desperate to increase ad revenue" or "Microsoft desperately needs better cloud services" or "Samsung is desperately in need of more high end phone sales" or "HTC desperately needs to convert positive reviews into actual sales"
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:44 am to colorchangintiger
quote:Here we go again, arguing what you want me to say rather than what I said. I didn't say Apple should sell a low-end phone, I said they should be interested in selling their phones to customers who are buying low-end Android phones.
because it's not worth it to them. It's a fools game. No one is criticizing Mercedes or BMW or Louis Vuitton or Tiffany's for not trying to cater to the lowest common denominator. Burberry tried to back in the 90s and it nearly bankrupt the company. It destroyed their image and quality and lets face it, Apple is about image and quality as much as they are about everything else. Why would they start making $100 off contract low quality smartphones where they only make $5 a phone when that would destroy them at their high end where they make $300 a phone?
quote:I don't think that, at all. Not even close.
It's amazing to me that people still think that Apple is on the verge of collapse
quote:Not questioning their tactics, just agreeing with the guy who said that Apple desperately needs iPhone6 to be a hit. Because they do.
that people still question their tactics and practices
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