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re: Twitter exchange between Piers Morgan and Michael Owen regarding Coloccini's red

Posted on 11/4/12 at 8:37 pm to
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 8:37 pm to
I would much rather Mo Farah or Spike Lee to serve as the most notable Gooner.

Posted by Jumbeauxlaya
LSU
Member since Jan 2011
18083 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 8:54 pm to
I agree.. But I also surprisingly agree with Morgan in the above conversation with owen..
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 8:55 pm to


I wish LFC had crazy African supporters to boost my self-confidence a little
Posted by RandySavage
9 Time Natty Winner
Member since May 2012
35831 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 8:59 pm to
quote:

And yet, if that exact challenge would have happened to a Chelsea player, you would have told us exactly why it was the right call


I'm never in favor of weak reds and pens. It's the biggest turn off about the game for me. Officials have way too much power to influence a game with reds and pens and both are much more often way too harsh and the punishment does not fit the crime.
Posted by Friend of OBUDan
Member since Dec 2008
9963 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:00 pm to
I do think Owen brings up an interesting point: if Colo wanted to make contact he easily could have. Suarez didn't move. That said, it sure looked like he was trying to frick him up or send a message. Tough to determine intent a lot of the time during a match.
Posted by Jumbeauxlaya
LSU
Member since Jan 2011
18083 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:07 pm to
I see what you're saying, but that's why I thought this earlier.

quote:

Looked like colocini realized how idiotic he was being about the challenge and adjusted his foot last second to not break suarez's leg, but still deservedly got the red
This post was edited on 11/4/12 at 10:15 pm
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:13 pm to
Spikes above the knee thrusted downward at a player's leg endangers the safety of the opponent, whether he missed intentionally or not.

It's like saying someone went to fake punch someone, but intentionally grazing his face in order to intimidate the other player. How is the ref supposed to know that?

The line judge was literally 5 yards away, saw the intent and told the referee to give him red. THey even showed the linesman's lips in slow motion saying "red" into the mic.
Posted by BleedPurpleGold
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
19014 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:14 pm to
quote:

Then I looked at that reverse angle and it's painfully obvious that he had no business going in like that as the ball was nowhere near.


That's what did it for me.
Posted by saderade
America's City
Member since Jul 2005
26511 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:16 pm to
Tough one but red was deserved. Suarez should be suspended for faking injury.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:26 pm to
quote:

Suarez should be suspended for faking injury.


L.O.L.
Posted by Friend of OBUDan
Member since Dec 2008
9963 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:36 pm to
He's not supposed to know that. I'm just saying if he realized what he was doing, pulled out and as a result barely grazed him I'm not sure that's worth a sending off and a three game suspension. To me, that's why determining intent is tricky business in these situations. At what second does one gauge intent? Lots of players have bad intent and do or do not follow through. It's a tough line for a referee to determine. I don't disagree with the call. It's right under the rules. I just think it's harsh.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:44 pm to
Well whether it was harsh or not, I'm not sure. Yellow doesn't discipline him enough, but red is an inherently harsh punishment (one I've established my distaste with multiple times on here). Falls perfectly within the rules of giving a red and looks very malicious. He didn't complain much after receiving the card which says a lot in its own right. The Newcastle fans on Reddit said that it was very out of character from him. He was cautioned multiple times within the match so that also must have held some merit in the ref's mind.
This post was edited on 11/4/12 at 10:46 pm
Posted by Jumbeauxlaya
LSU
Member since Jan 2011
18083 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:45 pm to
Because he was 1" or .5 seconds away from breaking a players leg on purpose?
Posted by Friend of OBUDan
Member since Dec 2008
9963 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:45 pm to
I do have a serious question, though. Everyone is saying contact is not required, hell I even RT'd someone saying that, but looking at the rule everyone has pointed to, it says "tackle." Can you tackle someone without making any contact?

In this situation, he definitely grazed Suarez so it falls under that rule either way.
Posted by Friend of OBUDan
Member since Dec 2008
9963 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:50 pm to
If he was trying to break his leg, he was picking an inefficient way to do so. Could learn a thing or two from Shawcross or Martin Taylor.
This post was edited on 11/4/12 at 10:51 pm
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:50 pm to
That was brought up in one of the reddit red card arguments a few weeks ago. Obviously there is no definition for it in the rule book, but one dude on Reddit who claimed to be a high school referee said the unwritten definition is "engaging the opponent to win the ball" or something along those lines.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:53 pm to
I don't think he was intentionally trying to break his leg because the Newcastle fans said that hasn't ever been in his nature. But Suarez was punking him all game long and I just think he got frustrated and wanted to send him a message. I don't think he pulled out like you all are saying, I just think he was intentionally trying to graze him, which he succeeded in doing. The only problem is he did it directly in front of the lineman.
Posted by Friend of OBUDan
Member since Dec 2008
9963 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:56 pm to
Makes sense.

I know some Arsenal fans, and even Wenger I think, argued the Eduardo dive incident versus Celtic was a PK because Boruc had no chance at the ball and still "attempted to trip" Eduardo which would be a foul and PK in the box but I always thought that was a bit much. I have a hard time with the attempt/intent stuff on the soccer field because its so fast paced. Its always tricky.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 10:58 pm to
Very similar thing happened to Sahin today. Full out slide tackle and he misses the opponent. Made no contact at all but it threw the opponent off his run and a foul was called on Sahin. It was clear he had no shot at the ball and his intent was to slow the play down. Intent is often hard to call, but when your studs are that high, moving in a downward motion towards the players leg it shows what you are meaning to do.
This post was edited on 11/4/12 at 11:01 pm
Posted by Friend of OBUDan
Member since Dec 2008
9963 posts
Posted on 11/4/12 at 11:00 pm to
To be clear, I'm not saying he pulled out. I'm saying he could have. Seems slightly more reasonable than him whiffing. But it looked really bad and intentional. That's why I think the red (and all of its punishments) was harsh (but clearly under the rules, justified). Tough to know what was going on in his mind. It's not in the rules, but to me there's a pretty big difference between intent and intent + follow through.
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