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Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:05 am to
Posted by Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
2375 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:05 am to
quote:

But it's silly to think you wouldn't get better results with a better talent pool. Good luck figuring out how to make soccer "cool" in the hood.


Thank you. That's all I'm trying to say. You guys can say all you want about proper training and starting at age 6. That will NEVER happen in America...not without the NBA, the NFL, and the MLB disbanding. The only way we will ever truly compete on the world stage with current training (which is what we will always have) is to have athletes who are better than our current players. Bradley, for instance, has above-average skill and vision. Unfortunately, he's slow and physically weak. A better athlete with that skill and vision would be a big upgrade to US soccer. And, you can do that across the board with the program.

Which brings us back to the original tweet (and the quote above)...It's not incorrect.
Posted by FunkasaurusReb
Memphis
Member since May 2014
870 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:16 am to
Paul Scholes, Frank Lampard, Xavi, Pirlo, Mata, and many more are world class midfielders but all less of an athletic specimen than Bradley. Look we get it if the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB players played soccer than some of them would have made it to the USMNT, but you sound absolutely like a typical 'merica fool when you constantly beat your dick to NFL, NBA, etc American players. You're trying to push your view that only American athletes are elite, and that soccer (unlike every other sport for some reason) is based purely on basic physical athleticism, which is not true at all.

ETA: The USMNT has had superior athletes for a long time. That's why traditionally we do fine against CONCACAF, but when we go against a team that has technical abilities we have been embarrassed.
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 9:20 am
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
51416 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

that skill and vision

doesn´t come from
quote:

current training (which is what we will always have)
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
30134 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:23 am to
The fact that you're basing your argument on the premise that soccer development in this country will be static for the rest of time shows your ignorance on this subject.

Yes, if we had better athletes with the same technical skills as those in the current pool, one could assume that we would have a better team. But better athletes would produce a marginally better team given the current restraints of player development in the U.S.
Posted by Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
2375 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:29 am to
quote:

You're trying to push your view that only American athletes are elite, and that soccer (unlike every other sport for some reason) is based purely on basic physical athleticism, which is not true at all


Not my view at all, actually.

quote:

The fact that you're basing your argument on the premise that soccer development in this country will be static for the rest of time shows your ignorance on this subject.


It will be static in the sense that we will never get the broad pool of high level athletes committing to soccer by age 8. That's not our culture and that's not changing.

Posted by FunkasaurusReb
Memphis
Member since May 2014
870 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:34 am to
quote:

It will be static in the sense that we will never get the broad pool of high level athletes committing to soccer by age 8. That's not our culture and that's not changing.


So basically all you're contribution to this thread comes down you just saying that soccer players are less superior athletes?
Obviously you haven't seen much soccer. As much as you jerk off to American dominated sports doesn't change the fact that soccer players are great athletes, and I would argue many better athletes than many in your beloved NFL, NBA, and MLB players.
Posted by Fratastic423
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2007
5990 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:38 am to
quote:

and I would argue many better athletes than many in your beloved NFL, NBA, and MLB players.


I've already tried saying that, but was laughed at by the NBA has vastly superior athletes crew.
Posted by Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
2375 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:39 am to
quote:

So basically all you're contribution to this thread comes down you just saying that soccer players are less superior athletes?


Where are you getting that from? I never once said that. I said that by and large the best athletes in the United States historically choose other sports besides soccer.

Seriously, are you just guessing what you think I'm saying? I think I've been pretty clear.

quote:

Obviously you haven't seen much soccer.


lol. I forgive you since you obviously didn't understand what I was saying.
Posted by FunkasaurusReb
Memphis
Member since May 2014
870 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:47 am to
I was going to copy and paste all the times you literally just said that our current USMNT players are less superior athletes, but it was every post you put down.
Just face the fact that there are good atheltes in our USMNT player pool. Yea, we missed out on Lebron, but chances are more likely that he becomes the next EJ before he becomes the next Rooney. Just because they are American and play in the NBA or NFL doesn't mean shite unless they have the natural born abilities needed to succeed in soccer, and the proper training at a young age to compete at higher levels.
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 9:51 am
Posted by Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
2375 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 9:49 am to
That part is true. the US team...not other teams. We have better athletes playing other sports. Not sure why you disagree with that.
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

Ex-Popcorn


You're only going to get more frustrated arguing with some of these guys on this topic man. The soccer board is my shite, but you’re dealing with years and years of resentment and angst from people who have been fans of a sport that the rest of America made fun of. I also suspect that many of them don’t watch any sports other than soccer. Or are just in denial. It’s the only explanation I can come up with for some of the retarded things I’ve read in this thread. To some of them, Juan Agudelo or Eddie Johnson are “great” athletes because they are black and fast. It’s hard to have a smart sports argument with someone who thinks Jozy Altidore is the same caliber athlete as DWade, Chris Paul, or Russell Westbrook.

No one breeds the kind of athletes like we do in the States. And if we dedicated the kinds of resources to soccer as the rest of the world does and as we do for our sports, we would dominate the sport globally like no one ever has.
Posted by CrazyCrawfish
Member since Nov 2014
384 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:11 pm to
Could zlatan play wide Reciever
Posted by WarSlamEagle
Manchester United Fan
Member since Sep 2011
24611 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

I also suspect that many of them don’t watch any sports other than soccer.

That would be extremely surprising, considering this is primarily a LSU/SEC football website.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

Unfortunately, he's slow and physically weak.


you've been pretty wrong in this whole thread, but Bradley isn't slow or weak. In soccer terms, he's massive, at 6-2 180. You don't find CMs who can run like he does at his frame. It simply doesn't happen very often. He has insane stamina and his size intangibles are off the charts. Where he struggles is technique and vision. You act like that vision can be taught. A better athlete at his position would do nothing for us if there isn't a significant technical improvement. And in general, players over 6 foot do not have the requisite technique to maximize their athletic advantage. That's why you have Spanish playmakers under five ten absolutely dominating the most physical league in the world, the BPL. Fabregas, Silva, Mata and Cazorla (among others of that type) have dominated the league for nearly a decade now. Fabregas might be the slowest player I've ever seen. He has excellent stamina though, but he isn't a great athlete by any means.

In the possession based game that is popular at the top level, technique trumps all. In America, two of the most successful players the last decade, Pirlo and Xavi, wouldn't get a look in any sport, because the traits they possess, the ability to hold the ball in tight positions and move it ( not like a point guard, which is the analogy people seem to make, as often they just move the ball to relieve pressure or spread the play) are technical and not physical. So while the goalscorers due need more physical traits, where games are won and lost, in the heart of midfield, technique triumphs. You could have Usain Bolt as your striker and it would mean nothing if he wasn't able to receive the ball into space, which relies on technical players deep in midfield, and has little to do with athleticism.
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 1:28 pm
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
51416 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

You act like that vision can be taught.

add touch to this, and you´ve got the reply which refutes this dumb arse ´we´ve got the horses´ argument.

Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

No one breeds the kind of athletes like we do in the States. And if we dedicated the kinds of resources to soccer as the rest of the world does and as we do for our sports, we would dominate the sport globally like no one ever has.


Absolute horseshite. Brazil produces players very similar to the type we would if "all our resources" were dedicated to the sport, and despite their brilliant history, the modern game has moved away from what made them successful. Brazilians have elite technique but they lack in the tactical sense. And they've been in crisis for a fricking decade now, and you are telling me that if America produced like Brazil produces, we'd dominate? That's just myopia. The problem with this argument is that you don't see the forest for the trees, and when that is pointed out, you respond by saying that forest has the wrong type of tree anyway. It's infuriating.
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

Brazil produces players very similar to the type we would if "all our resources" were dedicated to the sport,


No they don't. Not close.

quote:

That's just myopia.


The only myopic viewpoint here is you thinking that Brazil or any other country produces anywhere near the type of athlete that we do in America.

quote:

It's infuriating.


Indeed it is.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
30134 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:43 pm to
I used to believe the "the U.S. isn't good at soccer because our elite athletes play other sports" argument until I read an article that laid down the logic as to why that wasn't actually the case. This caused me to ammend my views on the subject.

There are two types of people in this world and in this thread: those who can take evidence and form opinions and change said opinions as the evidence changes, and those who had a preformed opinion who refuse to budge when their notions of the truth are challenged, contrary to the evidence before them.
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 1:44 pm
Posted by mynamebowl
Houston
Member since Jun 2012
1712 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:47 pm to
quote:

In soccer terms, he's massive, at 6-2 180. You don't find CMs who can run like he does at his frame.


Are you freaking serious man? Have you ever heard of Yaya Toure? We have thousands of Yaya Toure's over here. But instead of training to be a CM their entire lives, they've been trained to be shooting guards and wide receivers.



Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
30134 posts
Posted on 12/16/14 at 1:50 pm to
From now on I'm referring to big athletic black people as Yaya Toures.
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