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re: tOfficial Liverpool 2017/2018 Thread: “Upgrades Incoming Edition: A Great Season!”
Posted on 8/5/17 at 1:34 pm to TheZaba
Posted on 8/5/17 at 1:34 pm to TheZaba
true... but you can stump up 30+ on two known commodities in the mf
I agree, I think its more about making a statement that they have arrived and won't be pushed around... thats probably worth more to them than the extra £20mm or the actual player himself
I agree, I think its more about making a statement that they have arrived and won't be pushed around... thats probably worth more to them than the extra £20mm or the actual player himself
This post was edited on 8/5/17 at 2:02 pm
1
Posted on 8/5/17 at 2:04 pm to TFTC
Nice stat I just came across on Dom Solanke's pre-season..
8 Games
313 Minutes
3 Goals
2 Assists
62 Minutes per goal involvement
8 Games
313 Minutes
3 Goals
2 Assists
62 Minutes per goal involvement
Posted on 8/5/17 at 2:16 pm to TFTC
interesting comments from Klopp.. looks like Albie is back in the fold... happy for him!
Im guessing this is why we are seeing Firmino take pens... Milner won't be a nailed on starter this season..
Im guessing this is why we are seeing Firmino take pens... Milner won't be a nailed on starter this season..
Posted on 8/5/17 at 3:22 pm to TheZaba
quote:
As long as they have the Red Bull backing, they don't need the money so I don't blame them for trying to keep their first team intact to try and establish themselves in Champions League again.
That said, I still hope we can get him next summer at a cheaper price.
If their management wants to behave way outside the norms of typical football management, then all they will ever sign to their team are youngsters and prospects (and they will inevitably butt heads with the youngsters and prospects that develop for them, i.e. Keita, Forsberg).
No veteran player, especially the top players who can sell themselves to multiple teams, will EVER want to deal with that kind of unpredictable management insanity.
Posted on 8/5/17 at 3:24 pm to TFTC
quote:
interesting comments from Klopp.. looks like Albie is back in the fold... happy for him!
Makes perfect sense to me... Milly back in midfield and Moreno/Robertson at LB.
I heard that Milly played pretty solid in midfield today.
Edit: Changed above from RB to LB because of course Moreno/Robertson don't play RB, duh.
This post was edited on 8/5/17 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 8/5/17 at 4:54 pm to beatbammer
Yeah Milner adding midfield depth will be massive... I thought he played well today for sure
Posted on 8/7/17 at 8:19 am to Tigerfan7218
Sorry guys, but that's just lipstick on a pig.
Milner was not a good enough midfielder to begin with.
Albie was being shopped like a $2 whore for the last few months and wasn't able to get any real game time last year even with Milner exhausted and struggling. Even a week ago he had teams offering to buy him just not as high as we value him. Suddenly two friendly performances and we're good with him? Complete BS.
Klopp has realized our targets aren't coming and is trying to make do with what we had. He needs more cover at CM, so Milner can be that cover. But then he needs to have another LB just in case. Suddenly two players who weren't good enough before are said to be good enough. They don't add to our best 18, and limit the improvements our squad could have made.
I also call BS on Klopp saying we have enough CBs. Yes, he has to keep the CBs on hand feeling the love - but with less games last year, we needed 5. Matip, Dejan "'tis just a virus" Lovren, Gomez - all three of these guys have faced multiple periods of not being able to play in the last season. What happens when it occurs for all three at the same time? Klavan and Can? Not without their own injury issues.
Yes, I realize Klopps quotes to the media are not always to be taken as 100% truth - but there was NO point to the comments unless it was to soften the blow for a strong potential of a lack of additional business this window. Why say all that he said risk the firestorm otherwise?
Its a massive mistake and a massive opportunity missed.
If we don't do any more business, I see our top 4 qualification for this coming season as hinging upon 2-3 often injured CBs. We'll score plenty of goals, but can we stop other teams from scoring? I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Sorry - end of rant. Just had to get all that out.
Milner was not a good enough midfielder to begin with.
Albie was being shopped like a $2 whore for the last few months and wasn't able to get any real game time last year even with Milner exhausted and struggling. Even a week ago he had teams offering to buy him just not as high as we value him. Suddenly two friendly performances and we're good with him? Complete BS.
Klopp has realized our targets aren't coming and is trying to make do with what we had. He needs more cover at CM, so Milner can be that cover. But then he needs to have another LB just in case. Suddenly two players who weren't good enough before are said to be good enough. They don't add to our best 18, and limit the improvements our squad could have made.
I also call BS on Klopp saying we have enough CBs. Yes, he has to keep the CBs on hand feeling the love - but with less games last year, we needed 5. Matip, Dejan "'tis just a virus" Lovren, Gomez - all three of these guys have faced multiple periods of not being able to play in the last season. What happens when it occurs for all three at the same time? Klavan and Can? Not without their own injury issues.
Yes, I realize Klopps quotes to the media are not always to be taken as 100% truth - but there was NO point to the comments unless it was to soften the blow for a strong potential of a lack of additional business this window. Why say all that he said risk the firestorm otherwise?
Its a massive mistake and a massive opportunity missed.
If we don't do any more business, I see our top 4 qualification for this coming season as hinging upon 2-3 often injured CBs. We'll score plenty of goals, but can we stop other teams from scoring? I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Sorry - end of rant. Just had to get all that out.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 8:31 am to Tigerstark
I mean if Red Bull/Soton wants to be a bunch of bitches then there really isn't much they can do... And before anyone says they should have had backup targets, I seem to remember fans bitching a few years ago when we only landed backup targets (the 2014 summer window, and yeah I know it was under BR)...
Also, let's not forget there are still 3+ weeks left in the window so they still have time to do something.
Also, let's not forget there are still 3+ weeks left in the window so they still have time to do something.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 8:32 am to Tigerfan7218
quote:
And before anyone says they should have had backup targets, I seem to remember fans bitching a few years ago when we only landed backup targets
You can still target quality back up plans. I don't give a damn if they are our 4th choice as long as they make the team better.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 8:54 am to Tigerfan7218
...you can't compare apples to oranges. Back-up target in and of itself isn't a bad thing.
Wij was a "back-up" target. Wow, he was very good last year because he actually fit the role and position we had a need for.
Ballotelli as a back-up target to Sanchez is moronic. They don't play the same position, role, etc. Its basically "star power" back-up. It made zero sense. He was waste of a transfer and money.
Those two situations are completely different and clearly define stupid back-up targets vs. smart back-up targets.
There are other CBs available that could improve our starting XI. We are choosing to not do it. IMO, Klopp is potentially taking a big and unnecessary risk in order to hold out for his first choices.
Wij was a "back-up" target. Wow, he was very good last year because he actually fit the role and position we had a need for.
Ballotelli as a back-up target to Sanchez is moronic. They don't play the same position, role, etc. Its basically "star power" back-up. It made zero sense. He was waste of a transfer and money.
Those two situations are completely different and clearly define stupid back-up targets vs. smart back-up targets.
There are other CBs available that could improve our starting XI. We are choosing to not do it. IMO, Klopp is potentially taking a big and unnecessary risk in order to hold out for his first choices.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:00 am to Tigerstark
I don't agree with signing someone just to give us an extra body. I can't disagree that it would be nice to add another CB and CM , but we need real quality, especially at CB.
And like you said, we need people that fit the system. It's easy to say let's go buy a good CB, but with our system, we need a good ball-playing, excels in one on ones, athletic enough to play a high line, and big enough to make a difference on set pieces. That doesn't even take into account if whatever club this player is at is willing to sell, because that's a damn good CB that has all those qualities. Getting that player is easier said than done.
And like you said, we need people that fit the system. It's easy to say let's go buy a good CB, but with our system, we need a good ball-playing, excels in one on ones, athletic enough to play a high line, and big enough to make a difference on set pieces. That doesn't even take into account if whatever club this player is at is willing to sell, because that's a damn good CB that has all those qualities. Getting that player is easier said than done.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:06 am to Tigerfan7218
The voice of reason and you are correct. The problem is that no one has ever accused our supporters of being reasonable and the fact that our transfe window escapades under FSG have been ridiculous. How the hell did we screw up the VVD situation?! That has to be the most infuriating gaffe I have seen in a LONG time. There is absolutely no excuse for not landing this guy.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:15 am to JackVincennes
quote:That's a big problem. Were too focused on convincing him to come and forgot to bid
How the hell did we screw up the VVD situation?! That has to be the most infuriating gaffe I have seen in a LONG time. There is absolutely no excuse for not landing this guy.
Hopefully it still works out
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:20 am to JackVincennes
Sorry, its not "unreasonable" to expect Klopp to improve upon Lovren. Is Lovren even a top 40 CB in the EPL? Maybe barely. But I'd argue he's more in that 40-60 range.
And while we may not find someone quite as good as VVD, to go into the season without an improvement is a risk not worth taking. We have some main areas where we clearly need to improve upon our starting XI. That's one.
My rant may be emotional, but my thought process is not. Albi didn't suddenly become a good LB.
And while we may not find someone quite as good as VVD, to go into the season without an improvement is a risk not worth taking. We have some main areas where we clearly need to improve upon our starting XI. That's one.
My rant may be emotional, but my thought process is not. Albi didn't suddenly become a good LB.
This post was edited on 8/7/17 at 9:22 am
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:31 am to Tigerstark
I hate this transfer period. 
I'll hate it even more if FSG decides to sell Phil to the Barca cesspool.
I've never been an FSG hater, but if they sell Phil I'm buying a ticket on that train.
I'll hate it even more if FSG decides to sell Phil to the Barca cesspool.
I've never been an FSG hater, but if they sell Phil I'm buying a ticket on that train.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:42 am to beatbammer
Not happening unless he puts in a transfer request.
According to Barca's sources, they'll be signing Phil, Verratti, Dembele, and Paulinho this week
According to Barca's sources, they'll be signing Phil, Verratti, Dembele, and Paulinho this week
This post was edited on 8/7/17 at 9:45 am
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:49 am to Tigerstark
But if I remember correctly, Balotelli wasn't even our priority striker target that window AFTER Suarez left... I forgot who they were going after but that player ended up elsewhere and we ended up with Mario/Lambert (and what a clusterfrick that was).
Look I'm 100% with you that we need to improve over Lovren for sure, but I don't want us to sign an ill-fitting player just for the sake of needing a new CB.
As for LB, Robertson is young, but I like what I've seen out of him so far, and he's young enough that the parts that need improvement the staff will (hopefully) improve.
And Moreno isn't exactly old (25), so who's to say he hasn't worked his arse off in the last 12-18 months to improve to what we saw this summer?
Look I'm 100% with you that we need to improve over Lovren for sure, but I don't want us to sign an ill-fitting player just for the sake of needing a new CB.
As for LB, Robertson is young, but I like what I've seen out of him so far, and he's young enough that the parts that need improvement the staff will (hopefully) improve.
And Moreno isn't exactly old (25), so who's to say he hasn't worked his arse off in the last 12-18 months to improve to what we saw this summer?
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:56 am to Tigerfan7218
For me with Moreno, it's a concentration issue. He has pretty much all the other tools to be a serviceable LB. I don't think that's too surprising considering he was moved to LB later in his career after being a winger so obviously he's going to be more comfortable going forward. He just has too many lapses in concentration leading to bad matchups or situations.
It also doesn't help that he's playing next to our weaker CB who's also more prone to defensive errors. Gini actually did great last year positionally at helping provide cover for when Milner went far upfield and Milner did the same for Moreno in the friendly against Athletic. No they're not all the best options, but in the fit for the team, I can see how Klopp is thinking he could make it work if he drills them hard enough. He's always been someone that believes more in his team will be made on the training ground as opposed to the transfer window.
It also doesn't help that he's playing next to our weaker CB who's also more prone to defensive errors. Gini actually did great last year positionally at helping provide cover for when Milner went far upfield and Milner did the same for Moreno in the friendly against Athletic. No they're not all the best options, but in the fit for the team, I can see how Klopp is thinking he could make it work if he drills them hard enough. He's always been someone that believes more in his team will be made on the training ground as opposed to the transfer window.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:56 am to Tigerfan7218
quote:
Look I'm 100% with you that we need to improve over Lovren for sure, but I don't want us to sign an ill-fitting player just for the sake of needing a new CB
I don't think anyone's saying we have to sign an ill-fitting player just for depth, but I refuse to believe VVD is the only player that fits our style and would be an asset.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:04 am to pvilleguru
I'm sure there are, but it was made pretty clear that it was VVD or bust this summer... And if the staff hasn't vetted other options fully it could be worse than not signing anyone.
That being said, I won't have any negative feelings about not signing a CB until Sept. 1 because I'm still in the camp that VVD will get done (Keita not so much)
That being said, I won't have any negative feelings about not signing a CB until Sept. 1 because I'm still in the camp that VVD will get done (Keita not so much)
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