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My Top 30 Rankings for European Clubs
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:32 pm
Here's my contentious, American style Top 30 in Europe this season. I've tried to base it a bit more off actual, season long, form (ie how the teams have actually looked against top competition) and results than off previous seasons or merely the price of the rosters:
1. Bayern
2. Real Madrid
3 - 5 PSG, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid
The argument can be made about PSG's weaker league schedule but they've been so dominant in their CL matches that it's tough to discount. Barca just seems slightly less intimidating than in the recent past with defensive issues and some questions about how their attackers best mesh together but they're still elite without question. Atletico has been questioned from the beginning of the season as the team most likely to drop down but they just keep getting impressive results.
6 - 8 Manchester City, Chelsea, Juventus
Clearly stack up well with teams above in terms of roster talent (and in terms of playing them near toe to toe in long stretches in actual matches (Juve/Real Madrid, Man City/Bayern etc) but still not quite there.
9 - 13 Dortmund, Arsenal, AS Roma, Napoli, Liverpool
(You can put these 5 in a box and shake them up for 9-13 as the numerous matches between them have made pretty clear)
14 - 20 Shalke, Fiorentina, Tottenham, Manchester United, Athletic Bilbao, Porto, Benfica
21 - 30 Parma, Inter, Leverkussen, Villarreal, Real Sociedad, Everton, Monaco, Galatassaray, Olimpiacos
Of course getting to number 30 is probably pretty debatable and I'm sure I've left off some smaller league sides that are perhaps worthy (Basel, Salzburg, Zenit, Shaktar etc). Maybe also sides from bigger leagues around the EL/CL spots (Lille, Sevilla, Valencia etc) and Bundesliga sides like Wolfsburg but there's seemingly been so many extremely hot and cold runs by teams in those positions that I couldn't really pick one.
1. Bayern
2. Real Madrid
3 - 5 PSG, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid
The argument can be made about PSG's weaker league schedule but they've been so dominant in their CL matches that it's tough to discount. Barca just seems slightly less intimidating than in the recent past with defensive issues and some questions about how their attackers best mesh together but they're still elite without question. Atletico has been questioned from the beginning of the season as the team most likely to drop down but they just keep getting impressive results.
6 - 8 Manchester City, Chelsea, Juventus
Clearly stack up well with teams above in terms of roster talent (and in terms of playing them near toe to toe in long stretches in actual matches (Juve/Real Madrid, Man City/Bayern etc) but still not quite there.
9 - 13 Dortmund, Arsenal, AS Roma, Napoli, Liverpool
(You can put these 5 in a box and shake them up for 9-13 as the numerous matches between them have made pretty clear)
14 - 20 Shalke, Fiorentina, Tottenham, Manchester United, Athletic Bilbao, Porto, Benfica
21 - 30 Parma, Inter, Leverkussen, Villarreal, Real Sociedad, Everton, Monaco, Galatassaray, Olimpiacos
Of course getting to number 30 is probably pretty debatable and I'm sure I've left off some smaller league sides that are perhaps worthy (Basel, Salzburg, Zenit, Shaktar etc). Maybe also sides from bigger leagues around the EL/CL spots (Lille, Sevilla, Valencia etc) and Bundesliga sides like Wolfsburg but there's seemingly been so many extremely hot and cold runs by teams in those positions that I couldn't really pick one.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 9:57 pm
1
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:34 pm to wm72
Where's Celtic?
ETA: How the frick is a team that was in the Spanish Second Division last year in your top 30?
ETA: How the frick is a team that was in the Spanish Second Division last year in your top 30?
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:40 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Where's Celtic?
Dani Alves' really hates City doesn't he?
Isn't he the one who also said he didn't know that it was an actual club?
Celtic needed to get by Ajax or Milan this year.
Villarreal:
the list is based as much as possible of how well they're playing this year. Villarreal has been pretty good.
I actually did hesitate about whether to put them over Sevilla, Valencia for example just from Spain but they are in the CL spot in La Liga at this point.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:42 pm to wm72
quote:
Celtic needed to get by Ajax or Milan this year.
Why's Juve there (at 8, no less)?
And Villareal (just promoted) and Parma (really?)?
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:43 pm to TN Bhoy
Maaan, you know and I know that Celtic does not belong on that list.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:50 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Why's Juve there (at 8, no less)?
Juve has been extremely impressive in league play against the best Serie A sides. You can't ignore that even with those weird drawn matches in CL (just like my rankings last year didn't exclude Man City from a top10 ranking even though they were much worse in CL).
Parma is on as solid of a run as anyone in Europe. They won't last as they'll have a lot of players moving to larger clubs next year but they're pretty good even if I could certainly see arguing some other sides over them.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:51 pm to hendersonshands
Monaco was just promoted from the second division of France, but we know why they are on the list...
Posted on 3/13/14 at 2:51 pm to TFTC
I want to argue that Liverpool should be higher, but I can't...
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:01 pm to TFTC
quote:
I want to argue that Liverpool should be higher, but I can't...
Ranking in the Roma range is rad.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:07 pm to wm72
good rankings IMO. my only distinction would be i'd combine two of your groups and do 6-13. though chelsea, since the addition of Matic, might should be added into the tier above where they are. still, can't disagree much with anything you put.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:17 pm to wm72
quote:
You can't ignore that even with those weird drawn matches in CL (just like my rankings last year didn't exclude Man City from a top10 ranking even though they were much worse in CL).
You should have. IMO, talking just the top divisions throughout Europe, there are ~5 excellent sides, ~5 really good sides, a bunch of mediocre sides (where I'd put Celtic), and a bunch of absolute dross. The thing that separates them is Europe. You can't, IMO, put Leverkusen, for example, anywhere near the top after watching them get massacred by every club with a pulse in Europe. And if it's based solely on this year, Barca and Bayern shouldn't be at the top.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:18 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Where's Celtic?
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:20 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
good rankings IMO. my only distinction would be i'd combine two of your groups and do 6-13. though chelsea, since the addition of Matic, might should be added into the tier above where they are. still, can't disagree much with anything you put.
Good points. . . rankings to me are interesting in that they're so imperfect and especially with European clubs due to the lack of many head to head matches.
I did think about what you mentioned as the teams get really hard to separate.
Chelsea certainly can be one of the primary ones to move up quickly if they win the EPL and impress in the CL.
As for the 9-13 group, my thought was simply that I couldn't bump Roma and Napoli up as a pick'em with Juventus when Juve has obviously been so much better and decided not to move them that much below Arsenal and Dortmund based on how even all the head to head matches have been.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:22 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
And Villareal (just promoted)
You clearly don't follow La Liga much. Villarreal are very good. I don't see how being just promoted makes a difference. Bruno, Cani, dos Santos, Oliver Torres on loan.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:30 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
ou should have. IMO, talking just the top divisions throughout Europe, there are ~5 excellent sides, ~5 really good sides, a bunch of mediocre sides (where I'd put Celtic), and a bunch of absolute dross. The thing that separates them is Europe.
I think how they're doing in the 25-30 matches against top sides in their leagues separates them even more than a couple of bad matches in Europe (although that certainly counts and I factored it in).
quote:
You can't, IMO, put Leverkusen, for example, anywhere near the top after watching them get massacred by every club with a pulse in Europe
They certainly looked bad against ManU and shockingly outclassed by PSG.
I could go with the argument that on current form meaning, say, after Christmas they're not more deserving than some clubs I've left off, particularly many Germna sides that have done better in the league recently.
However, they are still right at the top of the Bundesliga table and they did manage to get out of their CL group over 2 pretty decent sides.
quote:
And if it's based solely on this year, Barca and Bayern shouldn't be at the top.
Barca did just handle the EPL's top side convincingly even with all their flaws (based on points per match played).
Bayern doesn't look quite as awe-inspiring as last year but until someone actually beats them there's not much debate about where they belong in my opinion.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:31 pm to wm72
quote:
Barca did just handle the EPL's top side convincingly even with all their flaws (based on points per match played).
Barca just beat Chelsea?
quote:
Bayern doesn't look quite as awe-inspiring as last year but until someone actually beats them
City beat them. In Munich.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:34 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Barca just beat Chelsea?
City is actually even with Chelsea in points per match played and lead them in goal differential.
Not that it's such a big deal but I don't think it makes it any stretch to say they're at least even with Chelsea as the EPL's top team right now.
The way City looked when beating Bayern at home was impressive (as have been a lot of their absolutely dominant performances in the EPL). That's one reason City is ranked highly.
However, I'll take with a grain of salt that Bayern lost when their qualifying was assured coupled with the way they completely dominated City earlier at the Etihad or whatever they call their stadium, when the result was more crucial.
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 3:39 pm
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:36 pm to TN Bhoy
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:39 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
City beat them. In Munich.
in a meaningless match to bayern. if you're arguing for the EPL, maybe you should try Arsenal's 1-1 draw in Munich, but that might be too painful for you.
Posted on 3/13/14 at 3:40 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
if you're arguing for the EPL
I'm not. I'm arguing that a list based solely on this season should not have Bayern or Barca at the top.
And it was in response to:
quote:
Bayern doesn't look quite as awe-inspiring as last year but until someone actually beats them
This post was edited on 3/13/14 at 3:42 pm
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