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re: Liverpool FC 2011/12 Season Thread
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:33 pm to xavierTIGER
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:33 pm to xavierTIGER
quote:
Can we find a striker to target in Jan that can poach some of these opportunities, for the love of God?
Only if you sell Carroll. What a terrible purchase.
1
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:39 pm to glassman
IMO it's a bad purchase at 3.5m simply because he doesn't fit in the style of play we are attempting. At 35m it becomes evident that it was a publicity stunt to influence fans into supporting the new ownership. We can't sell him now or we lose our asses on the deal...just have to hold on to him and hope his value goes back up to minimize our loss.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:40 pm to xavierTIGER
quote:
it's a bad purchase at 3.5m
If it was bad at 3.5m, what is it at 35m?
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:44 pm to TN Bhoy
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:46 pm to TN Bhoy
That was my point...it could only be a publicity stunt. I went and saw "Moneyball" today, and if that system we are using now to value players says Carroll is worth 35m, we need to abandon ship immediately.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 8:55 pm to xavierTIGER
No doubt Dump him and take the loss.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:03 pm to xavierTIGER
The system 'Pool uses probably doesn't value Carroll at 35mil just like the system the Red Sox uses doesn't value Crawford at $142mil.
This post was edited on 10/21/11 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:07 pm to TN Bhoy
Hindsight is 20/20 but oh if we would have sold Torres for 40M plus Sturridge and stayed away from Carroll.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:12 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
The system 'Pool uses probably doesn't value Carroll at 35mil
If this is the case, then we admittedly overpaid for him...why? because he's English? because we had 50m burning a hole in our pocket from Chelsea? or, were Henry and co. desperate to distance themselves from the previous American owners in the fans eyes? I haven't completely written him off, but it hurts to think what we could've gotten for that pricetag.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:14 pm to xavierTIGER
Combination of
quote:
because he's English
quote:
Henry and co. desperate to distance themselves from the previous American owners
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:16 pm to Cash
You torture me Cash 
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:19 pm to xavierTIGER
Well Liverpool fans have always said that they didn't *really* spend 35mil on Carroll, they merely set up that Carroll's price would = Torres - 15mil.
Teams like the Red Sox and Liverpool, where money really isn't an issue, will use a certain system to figure out who they like and then pay whatever it takes (to a certain extent) to land them. It's not like what you just viewed in Moneyball where the team had/has more limited funds.
Teams like the Red Sox and Liverpool, where money really isn't an issue, will use a certain system to figure out who they like and then pay whatever it takes (to a certain extent) to land them. It's not like what you just viewed in Moneyball where the team had/has more limited funds.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:32 pm to xavierTIGER
the highest percentage of goals in the PL come from set pieces. So to take advantage of that, what do you bring in?
Adam (great corner and dead ball taker) and Carroll (a dominating aerial presence). There's the 'moneyball' of this situation.
Carroll's price is hugely inflated because he's British (as was Downing's and Henderson's), but it was something that Kenny wanted in his team, which changes his inherent value.
The whole 'valued at' line never works. Every player is valued at what's paid for him.
Also, Carroll hasn't looked great in his time so far but man it's still really early to be judging him.
Adam (great corner and dead ball taker) and Carroll (a dominating aerial presence). There's the 'moneyball' of this situation.
Carroll's price is hugely inflated because he's British (as was Downing's and Henderson's), but it was something that Kenny wanted in his team, which changes his inherent value.
The whole 'valued at' line never works. Every player is valued at what's paid for him.
Also, Carroll hasn't looked great in his time so far but man it's still really early to be judging him.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:37 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
It's not like what you just viewed in Moneyball where the team had/has more limited funds.
Oh, no doubt Liverpool is one of the "haves" in the PL...although, I would argue that coming out of the change in ownership, we were as close financially to the "have nots" as we've ever been. And honestly, I'm not sure how big of a role sabermetrics played in the Carroll transfer anyway. I think it was more of a reactionary purchase than anything.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 9:44 pm to LfcSU3520
quote:
Adam (great corner and dead ball taker)
So far, his inconsistency in these areas has been astounding.
quote:
Carroll (a dominating aerial presence)
I thought so too, but he's looked far more impressive with his feet...and that's not saying much.
Look, I agree that it's still early and he's still young...but you can't honestly tell me that you're happy with the purchase (at that price) up to this point. Btw, are you going to give us a recap of your experience at Anfield? I was looking forward to reading about it.
Posted on 10/21/11 at 11:23 pm to xavierTIGER
I agree with your points, but just letting you know the thought process. He certainly hasn't been worth anything near what was paid, but I do have a lot of hope for him. He's good in the air, can be a good poacher, and has a good left foot so I think in time goals should start to reasonably flow for him.
Whether or not he becomes a prolific goalscorer is another matter and that's up to if he can ever gel with the unit around him.
Had a good time at Anfield but definitely wasn't the best I've seen it. Early kick offs at Anfield are like early kickoffs at Tiger Stadium. Everyone is hungover/ not drunk enough, so while energy early is great, it doesn't take much to convince everyone to keep sitting down.
Sat closer to the United Supporter's section this time and that was fun to see the back and forth. "19 times" "5 times" all game long.
There are A LOT of foreigners at Anfield now, so that kind of lends to the lesser atmosphere I think. Honestly, there were so many Scandinavians and Asians that it was kind of mind boggling (obv I get that I'm American but we're better than everyone else so who cares).
Watching live soccer and seeing a draw is really weird. Do you drink cause you're angry, or because you're celebrating? It's more like you just become sleepy. frick I wish we'd have just gotten the three points.
Whether or not he becomes a prolific goalscorer is another matter and that's up to if he can ever gel with the unit around him.
Had a good time at Anfield but definitely wasn't the best I've seen it. Early kick offs at Anfield are like early kickoffs at Tiger Stadium. Everyone is hungover/ not drunk enough, so while energy early is great, it doesn't take much to convince everyone to keep sitting down.
Sat closer to the United Supporter's section this time and that was fun to see the back and forth. "19 times" "5 times" all game long.
There are A LOT of foreigners at Anfield now, so that kind of lends to the lesser atmosphere I think. Honestly, there were so many Scandinavians and Asians that it was kind of mind boggling (obv I get that I'm American but we're better than everyone else so who cares).
Watching live soccer and seeing a draw is really weird. Do you drink cause you're angry, or because you're celebrating? It's more like you just become sleepy. frick I wish we'd have just gotten the three points.
Posted on 10/22/11 at 9:40 am to LfcSU3520
Another thing that makes the 35m less painful is the fact big Andy is only 22. If he is at the club until he is 30 and scores a decent amount of goals, which I think he will, you cant really be bothered by his price tag. 7-8 years of goals will ease some peoples criticism of Carroll at the end of the day.
YNWA
YNWA
Posted on 10/22/11 at 10:54 am to shelvey33
I think he will end up being a great player.
For me it's obvious that he needs to start. He is the ONLY target man on the squad. I've said all year, we are creating the chances but we have NOBODY to finish them.
While starting Downing/Suarez/Kuyt is a good looking front, there is no goal scoring threat. We constantly rely on our defense and the hope of a poached goal.
Starting Carroll may be detrimental in the short term, but he needs to play if the owners have any intention of keeping him. Let him fight for his spot. We've seen that when given the opportunities, he can score.
For me it's obvious that he needs to start. He is the ONLY target man on the squad. I've said all year, we are creating the chances but we have NOBODY to finish them.
While starting Downing/Suarez/Kuyt is a good looking front, there is no goal scoring threat. We constantly rely on our defense and the hope of a poached goal.
Starting Carroll may be detrimental in the short term, but he needs to play if the owners have any intention of keeping him. Let him fight for his spot. We've seen that when given the opportunities, he can score.
Posted on 10/22/11 at 10:56 am to LSUSOBEAST1
The team in full is: Reina, Carragher, Skrtel, Johnson, Enrique, Kuyt, Adam, Gerrard, Downing, Bellamy, Suarez. Subs: Doni, Agger, Carroll, Maxi, Spearing, Henderson, Flanagan.
Posted on 10/22/11 at 10:58 am to LSUSOBEAST1
Also, an interesting table comparing Enrique to other LBs:
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