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re: Jermaine Jones passing the ball, WTF?

Posted on 6/2/14 at 9:29 am to
Posted by TheRookbird
Member since Aug 2013
1322 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 9:29 am to
quote:

Jones looked great IMO in his "new" role in the diamond. He plays that really well.


We watched a completely different game, then. The only thing he did well was get his body in front of shots, which he admittedly did very well by the way. His positioning and overall decision making, especially early in the half was very poor. He did grow comparatively more comfortable as the half wore on but still had occasional lapses that would have cost the US against a team with better finishing, which is everyone we play in Brazil.
This post was edited on 6/2/14 at 9:30 am
Posted by joey barton
Member since Feb 2011
11468 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 9:39 am to
quote:

he was the direct cause of about 5-6 turnovers that lead to direct chances


That's probably pushing it.

Maybe 3-4. One was an unfortunate interchange with Bradley where he played a quick, short pass slightly behind Bradley and the ball somehow ricocheted directly to a Turkish player behind him. He had another where Besler just kind of stared at him after Jones knocked the ball down and Besler was in a much better position to clear the ball.
Posted by duggieblue
GA
Member since Feb 2010
4361 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 9:42 am to
quote:

We watched a completely different game, then. The only thing he did well was get his body in front of shots, which he admittedly did very well by the way. His positioning and overall decision making, especially early in the half was very poor. He did grow comparatively more comfortable as the half wore on but still had occasional lapses that would have cost the US against a team with better finishing, which is everyone we play in Brazil.



This...he will cost us a few goals with his incredible lack of discipline. And I repeat - 11 YC's in the last 28 matches (non USMNT), a fouling machine which will reveal itself when the real games start.
Posted by joey barton
Member since Feb 2011
11468 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 9:44 am to
quote:

Ghana is going to expose our back four if he gives them as much open space as he gave yesterday.

There were multiple times when he wasn't sure if he should close down on the ball or man an attacker so he choose instead to do neither and become a spectator.


quote:

But the main issue came in the middle of the field, where lone defensive midfielder Jermaine Jones was outnumbered 2-to-1. And with no defensive pressure on the Turkish midfielders, the visitors easily played their way through to the US penalty area.

After the USA's opening goal in the 26th minute, Jones says he took advantage of the break in the game to talk to Klinsmann about making some tactical changes.

"I was telling him that we have to drop one back and that [forward] Clint [Dempsey] had to go on [Turkey's deep playmaker Nuri Sahin] and that [US attacking midfielder] Michael [Bradley] had to come back a little bit. If we didn’t do it, I would always be two against one.”

But the changes suggested by Jones didn't take effect until the team went into the halftime locker to talk it over.

"What we needed to do earlier there is to drop Michael Bradley beside [Jones] to make it defensively a flat four and use the diamond going forward," acknowledged Klinsmann, echoing Jones's thoughts. "And so we corrected that at halftime and it then looked better. Even Clint [Dempsey] dropped a little bit more to look after Sahin, the No. 10, and it looked better."


LINK
Posted by PTBob
Member since Nov 2010
7102 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 9:53 am to
Yeh, after halftime when they interviewed Jurgy and he admitted to the tactical error I was wondering why the frick he didn't change it on the fly. If you have diagnosed the issue, why wait?
Posted by TheRookbird
Member since Aug 2013
1322 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:04 am to
quote:

But the main issue came in the middle of the field, where lone defensive midfielder Jermaine Jones was outnumbered 2-to-1.


But instead of marking anyone he stood there and looked like a deer in headlights at times. He also made questionable decisions when he clearly was not "outnumbered 2-to-1". See my previous link to theshinguardian.com for one such situation.
This post was edited on 6/2/14 at 10:05 am
Posted by ezride25
Constitutional Republic
Member since Nov 2008
26116 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:04 am to
Why not just go back to the 4231 then? It looks like we are gonna roll with the 41212 at the tournament but so far I have not seen any benefit of having a second striker up front. We haven't been more creative, we haven't created more chances, Jozy still hasn't scored, and I'm not sure Clint has even had a shot. Then you are gonna ask your CAM to get back and play CDM on defense, but manage the attack once we get possession? That's a big ask.

What I'd do? First send Yedlin home with a plane ticket for Donovan. Then I'd go back to the 4231 with the following:

Howard
Fab - Cameron - Besler - Beasley/Chandler
Beckerman - Bradley
Zusi/Bedoya - Donovan - Dempsey
Jozy

Posted by TheRookbird
Member since Aug 2013
1322 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:15 am to
quote:

Why not just go back to the 4231 then?


This is a valid question. It will be interesting to see what formation they roll out against Nigeria.

quote:

We haven't been more creative, we haven't created more chances, Jozy still hasn't scored, and I'm not sure Clint has even had a shot.


We created a lot of chances yesterday. If you're talking about the Azerbaijan game, it was a joke and a waste of our time and should not be used to argue for or against our strategy. We won't play anyone who puts 11 guys behind the ball in the World Cup.

Clint scored a goal yesterday and had 3 or 4 shots including some quality chances. Jozy was very good yesterday. He did everything you would want him to do outside of being a bit more aggressive in creating his shot in the box. He could have had 3 assists if Bradley, Dempsey and Diskerud finish.

quote:

First send Yedlin home with a plane ticket for Donovan.


That's silly. They're not the same position.
Posted by joey barton
Member since Feb 2011
11468 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:19 am to
quote:

See my previous link to theshinguardian.com for one such situation.


Even if Jones was "in position," Turkey has even numbers. That's a systemic problem, not a Jermaine Jones problem. I question his decision making from 42:50, but I'm not really sure why Brad Davis(?) didn't tuck behind him at 42:41. A "diamond" formation isn't supposed to involve a "CDM" who does absolutely fricking everything defensively.

ETA: I mean, we had nine seconds to get numbers behind the ball, and we ended up closing down one player, poorly, with four people. I mean, seriously? What the frick?
This post was edited on 6/2/14 at 10:23 am
Posted by etm512
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
20993 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:35 am to
quote:

That's silly. They're not the same position.


We have more than enough defenders (some who dont belong defending in a WC) and not enough capable midfielders
This post was edited on 6/2/14 at 10:36 am
Posted by TheRookbird
Member since Aug 2013
1322 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:37 am to
quote:

Even if Jones was "in position," Turkey has even numbers. That's a systemic problem, not a Jermaine Jones problem. I question his decision making from 42:50, but I'm not really sure why Brad Davis(?) didn't tuck behind him at 42:41. A "diamond" formation isn't supposed to involve a "CDM" who does absolutely fricking everything defensively.


They don't have even numbers at 42:41 and Jones is too far up field. 42:50, as you said, is a cluster frick but he's effectively doing nothing. At 42:52 he's moving forward instead of getting back? WTF? I mean he doesn't have to do "everything" defensively, but he has to do something.

The highlights don't really show much in terms of the actual run of play, but check out 1:00 and 1:20. Both are just head scratchers for me.

USA Highlights
Posted by TheRookbird
Member since Aug 2013
1322 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:40 am to
quote:

We have more than enough defenders (some who dont belong defending in a WC) and not enough capable midfielders


I thought Yedlin played decently well yesterday outside of his first horrible pass and I would argue that LB is our biggest hole so I don't think we have enough capable defenders.

Theoretically you would move Davis, Green or Wondo for Donovan.
Posted by joey barton
Member since Feb 2011
11468 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:53 am to
Think I counted the linesman. I still can't figure out where everyone is

quote:

At 42:52 he's moving forward instead of getting back? WTF?


Foolish, yes. Why no one is even really attempting to track back is beyond me.

quote:

I mean he doesn't have to do "everything" defensively, but he has to do something.


Sure, but we're all over the place in those series of screenshots. There were plenty of times where we were similarly all over the place, and he did something about it

quote:

but check out 1:00 and 1:20. Both are just head scratchers for me.


Yes, I remember both of them and even incorrectly referenced one of the incidents in my first post. He didn't really acquit himself well, but he pulled out of a tackle to avoid conceding a penalty and had trouble controlling a ball. There's a lot going on in both situations beyond Jermaine Jones, too
Posted by etm512
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
20993 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:56 am to
quote:

Theoretically you would move Davis, Green or Wondo for Donovan.


Or Yedlin. He's played RB. I would put Fabian, Cameron and Chandler all in front of him there so we really dont need him since there are better defenders you can bring in and move some guys around.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
29548 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:56 am to
I would drop Green for Donovan in a heartbeat.

I don't think we can do a 4-2-3-1. We just don't have enough offense there. Jozy needs someone up top with him for multiple reasons I don't feel like rehashing here.

I would be ok with a 4-4-2. Diamond in the attack, but a flat formation on defense. Let Bradley play his box to box role and have JJ stay back. Keep our width.
Posted by 225bred
COYS
Member since Jun 2011
20900 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 10:59 am to
Some people on this board are so fricking stupid.
Posted by joey barton
Member since Feb 2011
11468 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Then you are gonna ask your CAM to get back and play CDM on defense, but manage the attack once we get possession?


It was a generic 4-4-2 where Bradley had near exclusive license and was encouraged to get forward. He wasn't teleporting, or anything
Posted by TheRookbird
Member since Aug 2013
1322 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 11:27 am to
quote:

I would drop Green for Donovan in a heartbeat.


I would too, but he has a golden ticket. I would drop Davis for Donovan as quickly, though. There's nothing Davis brings that Landon wouldn't also bring and Landon is faster, has proven to be committed defensively, and is a far better finisher.
Posted by etm512
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
20993 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 11:39 am to
And has 2 functioning feet on the ball
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
29548 posts
Posted on 6/2/14 at 11:39 am to
I found it really interesting in the 3rd episode of that ESPN series where the dude who used to do the Inside the USMNT segments that US soccer would post (big ears) was asking Jurgen, "You really don't think Donovan could provide something, even off the bench?"
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