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Posted on 6/15/14 at 9:47 am to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
It has nothing to do with their players.
It has everything to do with management and tactics
Roy made Rooney take the corner of English-hating dreams? Roy made Glen Johnson constantly try to run at five Italian defenders in the box? Roy made Johnson run out of position for Swago's goal? Roy made Rooney steal the ball off Barkley and aimlessly run into nothing? Roy made Henderson invisible? Roy made Wilshere constantly frick up? Roy made Hart completely lose his mind 4-5 times? Roy made all of the English players forget how to kick a ball for the last 25 minutes?
You're just trying to cover for a team full of Liverpool players failing. It's ok. This doesn't make Rodgers' success this year go away.
This post was edited on 6/15/14 at 9:52 am
Posted on 6/15/14 at 10:15 am to TN Bhoy
quote:He was quiet most of the game, sure. But he had a couple great passes I remember, and he had a good shot on goal in the first half.
Roy made Henderson invisible?
Posted on 6/15/14 at 10:54 am to tickfawtiger
quote:
And that's just fine with me...ENGLAND = all downhill since 1966 !
Hockey fans used to taunt the Rangers by chanting "1940!" The Islanders started the chant in the 1980s and other rival teams like the Penguins and Flyers picked it up.
England's drought is now longer than the Rangers' when that chant started. Maybe soccer fans should start chanting "1966!"
Posted on 6/15/14 at 11:23 am to engvol
quote:
good goal keeping, he moved him away from goal in a one on one
I don't think anyone had a problem with that
quote:
he back peddles to the goal there wasn't a defender close
Gary Cahill was within touching distance of Joe Hart when Joe Hart decided to stay off his line
quote:
And holy fricking I'm hanging
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:00 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
I still think that Italy will go deep this tourney because he is still an amazing DLP, and usually the teams with the best DLP's go deep in the tourney.
Is he really a "deep-lying" playmaker though? He was pushed really far up the field at times. And I think Pirlo is more useful when he's not expending energy defending, to be honest.
quote:
With that said, they didn't play terribly. Actually it was one of their best performances against a good team thst I can remember. They are just terribly unbalanced.
Roy needs to nut up and sit Welbeck and pair Rooney and Sturridge. If he refuses to do that then Rooney needs to hit the bench. Playing him out of position to cover for Johnson and Baines fricks that team up. But Roy knows Rooney will run his tail off for 90 minutes and that's his justification.
Pair Shrek and Shassmaster, put Sterling as the 10, and overload the midfield. Those 3 should be able to get you out of the groups if you set them up right.
I agree to an extent, but the individual performances were lacking.
How do you plan on having 2 strikers up top and Sterling in the ten role? Like, what formation would that require?
People hound Shrek a lot but he's not a winger and I think Roy is an idiot for playing him there. I'm not sure why they don't play a 4-2-3-1 with Rooney in the hole, Sturridge up top, and Sterling on the wing. As much as I hate to push Sterling out wide since he's so, so good centrally, not doing so is clearly at the expense of Rooney, who when he's on his game is a real game-changer for England (well, for ManU at least). Let Rooney and Sterling switch positions from time to time to confuse the defense. That left side will lose some defense but you need Hendo to play to the left of Gerrard in the defensive two and give some cover back there, a la Jermaine Jones covering for Dempsey. Play Ox on the right if he gets healthy, or even Milner, who will put in the defensive work that will allow Johnson to get forward.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:29 pm to cwil177
quote:
I still think that Italy will go deep this tourney because he is still an amazing DLP, and usually the teams with the best DLP's go deep in the tourney.
Is he really a "deep-lying" playmaker though? He was pushed really far up the field at times. And I think Pirlo is more useful when he's not expending energy defending, to be honest.
He's the definition of deep lying playmaker as 1) he's usually the release point deep in Italy's defending half when they win the ball to either simply maintain possession or start the attack.
2) even when Italy are in possession and have the opposing side pressed back and Pirlo is pushing forward he's still pulling the strings from a"deeper" position than, say, a typical trequartista.
Pirlo has never really been a defender though sometimes (in better weather) his ability to read the game and get in the way of what the other attack wants to do is often underrated. Pirlo seldom "runs" however he does drift constantly and covers a surprising amount of ground during a much.
De Rossi, Motta, Gattuso in the past etc take the defensive responsibility.
Regarding England:
I think the points about Rooney's positioning are good ones.
However, for all the gnashing of teeth over England losing a fairly closely played match to Italy, there's also the point to be made that Italy simply has better players who are technically and tactically more astute.
From yesterday, I don't think you could find a better example of brains and technique trumping pace and power than "aging" Pirlo and De Rossi looking like they were out for a walk in the park at 80 minutes while many of England's "young athletes" were cramping up and looking dead exhausted.
This post was edited on 6/15/14 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:39 pm to wm72
quote:
sometimes (in better whether) his ability to read the game and get in the way of what the other attack wants to do is often underrated
He was able to put in one tackle yesterday after an English player literally ran into him
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:39 pm to wm72
Went to Dan McGuinness here in Nashville right after this game and a lot of English people there were still there completely hammered and singing songs along with a couple of guys from Northern Ireland.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:44 pm to wm72
quote:
From yesterday, I don't think you could find a better example of brains and technique trumping pace and power than "aging" Pirlo and De Rossi looking like they were out for a walk in the park at 80 minutes while many of England's "young athletes" were cramping up and looking dead exhausted.
Hydration. It matters.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:44 pm to cwil177
This post has been marked unreadable!
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:45 pm to joey barton
quote:
He was able to put in one tackle yesterday after an English player literally ran into him
He was pretty funny yesterday. He wanted absolutely no part of running around in the heat but at least took a couple of steps to try and guide England's eager dribblers toward dead ends.
The 3 starters Italy substituted out were 21, 22 and 25 years old.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:45 pm to MontyFranklyn
quote:
Soccer sucks, you all suck, go to heck you soccer sissies
I've never heard this before.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:46 pm to cwil177
quote:Well now you have
I've never heard this before.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 12:57 pm to MontyFranklyn
He was really the definition of a deep lying playmaker as
1) he was the release point deep in Italy's defending half when they won the ball to either simply maintain possession or start the attack.
2) even when Italy were pressing England back and Pirlo was pushing forward he was still orchestrating from a "deeper" position than, say, a typical trequartista.
Pirlo has never really been a defender though sometimes (in better weather) his ability to read the game and get in the way of what the other attack wants to do is often underrated. Pirlo seldom "runs" however he does drift constantly and covers a surprising amount of ground during a much.
De Rossi, Motta, Gattuso in the past etc take the defensive responsibility.
Regarding England:
I think the points about Rooney's positioning are good ones.
However, for all the gnashing of teeth over England losing a fairly closely played match to Italy, there's also the point to be made that Italy simply has better players who are technically and tactically more astute.
From yesterday, I don't think you could find a better example of brains and technique trumping pace and power than "aging" Pirlo and De Rossi looking like they were out for a walk in the park at 80 minutes while many of England's "young athletes" were cramping up and looking dead exhausted.
1) he was the release point deep in Italy's defending half when they won the ball to either simply maintain possession or start the attack.
2) even when Italy were pressing England back and Pirlo was pushing forward he was still orchestrating from a "deeper" position than, say, a typical trequartista.
Pirlo has never really been a defender though sometimes (in better weather) his ability to read the game and get in the way of what the other attack wants to do is often underrated. Pirlo seldom "runs" however he does drift constantly and covers a surprising amount of ground during a much.
De Rossi, Motta, Gattuso in the past etc take the defensive responsibility.
Regarding England:
I think the points about Rooney's positioning are good ones.
However, for all the gnashing of teeth over England losing a fairly closely played match to Italy, there's also the point to be made that Italy simply has better players who are technically and tactically more astute.
From yesterday, I don't think you could find a better example of brains and technique trumping pace and power than "aging" Pirlo and De Rossi looking like they were out for a walk in the park at 80 minutes while many of England's "young athletes" were cramping up and looking dead exhausted.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 1:01 pm to wm72
Yeah, I was surprised to see his tracking statistics included five sprints, because I certainly didn't notice him break into anything more than a shuffle
The first touches of the Italian players always really impress me the couple times I watch Italy play every two years (or the single Serie A game I'll catch per season). Probably 20% of Pirlo's passes would miss the mark if he played for just about anyone else.
quote:
Italy simply has better players who are technically and tactically more astute.
The first touches of the Italian players always really impress me the couple times I watch Italy play every two years (or the single Serie A game I'll catch per season). Probably 20% of Pirlo's passes would miss the mark if he played for just about anyone else.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 1:13 pm to joey barton
quote:
The first touches of the Italian players always really impress me the couple times I watch Italy play every two years (or the single Serie A game I'll catch per season). Probably 20% of Pirlo's passes would miss the mark if he played for just about anyone else.
Right now Italy misses the world class trequartista / fantasista type the WC champion caliber sides have always had but people who don't watch Serie A really underestimate the sheer amount of very good Italian players that fill all the midtable sides.
Italia is a Totti, Baggio, Del Piero, Antognoni ect away from being a real threat to win the WC, but they can at least roll out a few lineups filled with players like Marchisio, Darmian etc. . .
Posted on 6/15/14 at 1:18 pm to joey barton
Italian players are great to watch. I thought Pirlo was sending a few too many overhead balls to Balotelli, but he was a wizard otherwise. Experience over youth and tactics over potential.
Posted on 6/15/14 at 1:26 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Italy set some extraordinary records in last night’s game against England, including the best passing accuracy in 48 years.
The most important statistic is that the Azzurri won 2-1 in Manaus, but there are other numbers that have impressed in this performance.
It has been calculated that the passing accuracy from the Italy players was 93.2 per cent. LINK
The most important statistic is that the Azzurri won 2-1 in Manaus, but there are other numbers that have impressed in this performance.
It has been calculated that the passing accuracy from the Italy players was 93.2 per cent. LINK
Posted on 6/15/14 at 1:32 pm to wm72
quote:
Italia is a Totti, Baggio, Del Piero, Antognoni ect away from being a real threat to win the WC
At least there is Balo. Though there was a Vieri, I really think he is more capable of doing something special at any moment.
Agree 100% but I miss the legendary CBs
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