re: France vs. Croatia | World Cup Final | Fox

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52 players at the 2018 FIFA World Cup were born in France.

French-born players can be found on the rosters of Morocco, Portugal, Senegal, and Tunisia.

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Yep. France has the best youth system in the world. The book Soccer Empire goes over this subject too. It's why taking away France's victory today based on the national origin of the players' parents is stupid; the French FA made that team, and there were more players they left at home who would be the best players on other European teams.

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I didn't come here as a war refugee. I came here 5 years after the war ended, from a town that wasn't even affected by war. Matter of fact all of my family is still over there. Still I don't get your point. Are you referring to that because I moved to America that somehow I'm American? I can never be American. No matter what paper or status or allegiance I provide. As soon as I show my name it's a different ball game. Yet if the country that was founded by immigration deep down under doesn't consider me American, then why are you defending those fake arse Frenchmen?

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I did come here as a war refugee. Born in Bosnia, Dad was full Croatian, Mom is Serbian. We all consider ourselves American. Not just because we are citizens or because we put in the work, but because we are a part of this country. My friends here consider me Croatian and American. My dad didn't force us to become American. It happened naturally and we don't give a shite if people think we're American or not, most do, some do not. I don't give a shite about France and the heritage of their players. One of Croatia's best strikers was born in Brazil. Half of the current team was born in Bosnia. That doesn't compare much to France, but in the end, we fought hard and did something that most countries have only dreamed of. I'm proud of our team. Hopefully, this ignites some much need enthusiasm in Croatia.

Dalic said the penalty call was bullshite

He also called France’s two open play goals soft

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How dare those countries invite those populations in, make them citizens, and train them so well that many of them become world-class footballers.

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That sounds a little like they’re using them as mercenaries. France is still directly benefitting from its colonial sins, and it’s actually somehow not PC to recognize that.

I hesitate to get involved in this discussion and don’t claim to have the right answer, but people seem to be blithely throwing away the very idea of “French-ness” beyond having French citizenship.

It'd be nice if in cases of true unintentional handball, you didn't have to award a penalty kick, but instead an indirect free kick or something. Perisic had no time to make a movement that was hand to ball, but I can see why it was called.

That said, Croatia threatened but still created fewer goalmouth chances than they should have. They really dominated the game in the first half. They were definitely unlucky, and for a while, I thought Deschamps was insistent on giving them the game.

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Platini is an Italian born in France, both of his parents and their lineage is Italian. If your parents are German and you are born in Spain, does that make you Spanish?

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Yeah this line of reasoning doesn't account for how fluid the world has become. You act as though the nation-state system is somehow sacrosanct and immutable, of which it is neither. No one cared about Platini's parentage when he was playing, or when he was president of UEFA, etc., because he was European. The same standards, when applied to non-Europeans, lays bare, to me, the myopia of that view. No one ever brings up Platini, Pires, Fernandez, nor do they care to mention the players that come from French colonial possessions that are considered part of France. And it's not even a good or worthwhile point, as it is ignorant of how mutable identity is in normative terms.

It’s time for another “Which country are you eligible to play for?” Thread.

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That sounds a little like they’re using them as mercenaries. France is still directly benefitting from its colonial sins, and it’s actually somehow not PC to recognize that.

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My point is that to take away this victory away from France would be to do a disservice to those that should take credit, the French FA who reorganized their youth system in 1988, on the back of some good runs in international competition, and made it the best in the world. It's a system that doesn't discriminate based on anything other than skill, and shouldn't it be lauded for that? The players on the field still sacrificed a lot to become professional players. Benjamin Pavard moved away from home at 10. Mbappe and others went to French finishing schools during their teens. All of the players had to sacrifice a tremendous amount to make it through the French youth system.

I certainly don't think of them as mercenaries, as they can't, by definition, play for another country. They are locked in for life, as it were. France is still benefiting from its colonial situation, as is Britain, but the least they could do to make up for their colonial sins as you put it, is to extend the idea of Frenchness to include the peoples of their former colonies (as they already did during the colonial project itself). After all, the French have a notion of being French "by spilling blood," and the colonial subjects provided plenty of troops to France, including armies made up of colonial conscripts who fought in Indochina, and groups of who fought for France like the Harkis.

But the idea of French-ness is complicated. The Francophone world includes most of Africa, and indeed 7 of the largest French speaking cities are in Africa. Kinshasa in the Congo has 10 million French speakers by itself. Spreading of the language and the culture was a big part of the colonial project. But the victory today wasn't one of colonialism, but rather the French youth system. Africans in France have been representing France since the 1930s, but they only became superstars after the French reorganization in the 1980s.

I really hope the US copies the French model, as it is the one best suited to our geography.