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re: France vs. Croatia | World Cup Final | Fox
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:46 pm to crazy4lsu
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:46 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I really hope the US copies the French model, as it is the one best suited to our geography.
I'd love to read a breakdown of the French model when you have some time.
1
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:48 pm to Old Money
quote:
Differentiating ethnicity and nationality really doesn't bother me.
Fair enough.
quote:
Even Americans describe themselves by their ancestry.
Sure, but in my experience, it's usually a crazy amount of national identities. It's only first or second generation that have been really precise with it, everyone else has to include some Cherokee princess or something. American identity, of which I'm very proud, is one that should be characterized by an ethic and a spirit of hard work. I think it was best distilled by this passage, from a NYT article about French Algerians:
quote:
“In the 14 years I have been here, I have never really been accepted, neither socially nor professionally,” said Sami Rahemi, who was born in Algeria, moved to France when he was 5 and returned to Algeria as an investor when he was 35. “Ever since I arrived in 1992, I have been called ‘the emigrant.’ I have always been defined by my migratory flow and never by what I am as a person. I had lived two years earlier in California, and everyone called me by my name there.”
This post was edited on 7/15/18 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:50 pm to whodidthat
Daj ne seri. Ti si stranac ko i ja. I uvijek ces bit stranac.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:52 pm to Vlatket
Tais-toi fils putain.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:57 pm to crazy4lsu
Lloris, Giroud, Pavard, and Thauvin are the only "real" French players according to some posters.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:57 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
I'd love to read a breakdown of the French model when you have some time.
Basically it's 12 finishing schools situated around the country. At age 12 you have tryouts in your regional subdivision to see who makes the finishing school. From 13 to 15, you live at the regional academy and play full-time. Basically all the regions siphon their best kids into the regional finishing schools, which train the players full-time, and have produced an alarming number of professionals. Clairefontaine, outside Paris, is the most famous. They they focus on the psychology of the game, tactics, technical training (weak foot training, etc), as well as other weaknesses. Players stay there during the week and return home on the weekend, where they also go to school, with all the costs for the training and education borne by the federation.
The regional aspect is the most enticing part to me, as it removes variances from club to club and produces players who have a baseline of skill. I've attached some links below. The last one is a fight between Abou Diaby and Hatem Ben Arfa when they were both housed at Clairefontaine.
Vox-France Football
LINK
Clairefontaine
LINK
Abou Diaby-Hatem Ben Arfa fight
LINK
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:58 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
but the least they could do to make up for their colonial sins as you put it, is to extend the idea of Frenchness to include the peoples of their former colonies (as they already did during the colonial project itself).
I can't call it magnanimous of them to use those players to win the World Cup.
quote:
But the victory today wasn't one of colonialism, but rather the French youth system.
That's a false dichotomy, unless you're positing that the general athleticism of the children with African parents didn't play an important role.
This is a silly discussion, though, because it's none of my business, and I guess the French themselves aren't bothered by it.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 3:59 pm to crazy4lsu
Clairefontaine is the GOAT
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:01 pm to uway
quote:
That's a false dichotomy, unless you're positing that the general athleticism of the children with African parents didn't play an important role.
If athleticism alone was the main factor in success on the international stage, the US would be in a much better spot. Arguing against the legitimacy of these French players is foolish. Simple as that.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:06 pm to uway
quote:
unless you're positing that the general athleticism of the children with African parents didn't play an important role.
Well at that level, it becomes about things other than athleticism. France had been plagued by attitude problems and infighting due to the talented generation of 87, with friction between players like Nasri, Benzema, Henry, Evra and Ribery, along with friction between Anelka and the French FA including Domenech. What I mean is that they've always had talented players, but what makes this class of players different and better?
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:11 pm to S
quote:
Clairefontaine is the GOAT
Facts
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:13 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Sure, but in my experience, it's usually a crazy amount of national identities. It's only first or second generation that have been really precise with it, everyone else has to include some Cherokee princess or something. American identity, of which I'm very proud, is one that should be characterized by an ethic and a spirit of hard work. I think it was best distilled by this passage, from a NYT article about French Algerians:
"... I had lived two years earlier in California, and everyone called me by my name there."
We are definitely a special nation where our identity is based less on ethnicity. Our openness and acceptance of other cultures has really helped us secure the brightest minds around the globe. I believe that is what many of these EU law makers have tried to emulate with their immigration policies.
On France and their colonial past, with francophone populations growing in Africa, their language will be one of the most widely spoken in the world in coming decades. I do wonder how that will help France as a nation economically.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:20 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
It's why taking away France's victory today based on the national origin of the players' parents is stupid;
People concentrate on the British and their Empire but forget about France.
And just like the British gave citizenship to their former colonies...
- the 1948 Act gave Commonwealth citizens free entry to Britain. Many hundreds of thousands came from India, Pakistan and the West Indies to Britain through the 1950s - so too did the French to their former colonies in North Africa.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:33 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
What would a true American even look like? A redneck from deep in the woods of Mississippi?
Watch it baw.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:39 pm to hendersonshands
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:49 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
Stillllll drunk allllezs les Bleus
Posted on 7/15/18 at 4:55 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:Who said it was?
If athleticism alone was the main factor in success on the international stage, the US would be in a much better spot.
I didn't say it was the main factor in success on the international stage, but it certainly played an enormous role in these African-descended players rising to the top of the French system, and the relative athleticism of this French team was an important factor in this World Cup victory.
Do y'all want to argue against that?
quote:
Arguing against the legitimacy of these French players is foolish.
Then go argue with someone who is questioning their legitimacy.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 5:25 pm to uway
quote:
but it certainly played an enormous role in these African-descended players rising to the top of the French system, and the relative athleticism of this French team was an important factor in this World Cup victory.
Do y'all want to argue against that?
Yea I know. Look at all the African teams that made it out of group stage with those same African athletes.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 6:14 pm to Vlatket
quote:
Daj ne seri. Ti si stranac ko i ja. I uvijek ces bit stranac.
Mozda, ali i tamo sam stranac.
Posted on 7/15/18 at 6:15 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Yea I know. Look at all the African teams that made it out of group stage with those same African athletes.
Previously I didn't believe you to be this obtuse. I'd love to know who is upvoting this strawman nonsense you're posting.
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