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Started By
Message
re: Citeh vs. Gooners
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:04 pm to Dandy Lion
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:04 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Tactical, not cynical, in my book.
Agreed.
Bench player taking a yellow or a clear run into the box?
1
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:04 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
I understand what you're saying. I think cynicism is a 'wontonly' foul or challenge (unnecessary).
I think what your describing is just an unnecessary foul. I have always understood a 'cynical challenge' to be one in which the player makes the challenge knowing he will not win the ball. Obviously it's just a difference in terminology but you know what I'm saying.
quote:
I think if he doesn't commit that foul, he's letting a potentially fatal goal opportunity unfold.
Which, coupled with the cynical nature of a challenge like that, is enough to justify a red in my opinion. I understand why hes only given a yellow and that it is consistent with refereeing all over Europe, I just don't really agree with it.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:15 pm to BobLoblaw
I see no cynicism in the foul. This must be a term one of the color limeys use, and it's caught on here.
Cynical is a challenge or foul which serves no purpose.
This was a tactical foul.
Cynical is a challenge or foul which serves no purpose.
This was a tactical foul.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:19 pm to Dandy Lion
Not sure why we're still arguing over terminology? 
It doesn't really make any difference to the point I'm trying to make.
It doesn't really make any difference to the point I'm trying to make.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:19 pm to Dandy Lion
I thought the yellow was sufficient. A red would have been incredibly harsh
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:29 pm to BobLoblaw
quote:
It doesn't really make any difference to the point I'm trying to make.
I think it does. I fail to see the 'cynicism'.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:31 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Bench player
Wasn't it Javi Garcia? Didn't he start?
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:32 pm to bluebarracuda
It depends, if no other defenders were between our guy and the goal it should have been red, I think kompany was in position to intercept however so yellow is right
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:37 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
I think it does. I fail to see the 'cynicism'.
Ok I will acquiesce and not call it a cynical foul anymore we can call it a technical foul if it will make you happy.
The point I was trying to make is that a foul like that shouldn't have any part in the game. If he doesn't pull him down there then he cannot catch up to him to make a legitimate challenge (one in which he actually is going for the ball) until he's in a position where he would have to take a red card to bring him down or else he has a shot on goal / ball across the box. It's the sort of foul that Van Bommel makes every single game he has ever played and I understand the value and purpose of that sort of foul but I just wish it was eradicated from the game.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:39 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Wasn't it Javi Garcia? Didn't he start?
Pablo Zabaleta started too, it doesn't mean that he's not a bench player. He just meant he's not an every game starter.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:40 pm to BobLoblaw
It is very simple. Do you roll the dice on a yellow maybe being a straight red, and play what little time is left a man down, or do you let in a bonafide opportunity which could spell a loss?
It is very simple.
It is very simple.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:42 pm to BobLoblaw
I think the yellow card is punishment enough. Fouls like that happen in every sport. Red card would be way too harsh there. Soccer actually penalizes that sort of foul more harshly than any other sport. It sucks, but I'd have been pissed if I was a Man City fan if he hadn't done that.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:49 pm to Dandy Lion
Yes, once again I completely understand why players do it, to me that is why it's a problem to allow it. If you don't want players to cheat then you punish them for cheating.
If you want to get rid of dives then you have to make the consequences as equal to the benefits as possible. If you dive for a PK and win a game as the result how do you dis-incentivize a player from doing that? A 3 game ban? 5 games? I don't know, but if a player is suspended 10 games for diving he's probably gonna start thinking twice about doing it right?
Now, I'm not saying that a 10 game suspension is how you deal with it so don't get focused in on an example and completely miss my point again.
If you want to get rid of dives then you have to make the consequences as equal to the benefits as possible. If you dive for a PK and win a game as the result how do you dis-incentivize a player from doing that? A 3 game ban? 5 games? I don't know, but if a player is suspended 10 games for diving he's probably gonna start thinking twice about doing it right?
Now, I'm not saying that a 10 game suspension is how you deal with it so don't get focused in on an example and completely miss my point again.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:52 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
I think the yellow card is punishment enough. Fouls like that happen in every sport. Red card would be way too harsh there. Soccer actually penalizes that sort of foul more harshly than any other sport. It sucks, but I'd have been pissed if I was a Man City fan if he hadn't done that.
Yes but if you made it a straight red card players just simply wouldn't do it because it would be stupid.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:55 pm to BobLoblaw
quote:Uhhhhh, no. Especially if a 'bench player' as you say. Think about it.
Yes but if you made it a straight red card players just simply wouldn't do it because it would be stupid.
Bob, you're getting caught up in US television retransmission jargon.
This post was edited on 9/23/12 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 9/23/12 at 12:56 pm to Dandy Lion
He understands the context of the foul and the yellow within the frameworks of the rule book.
He's saying the rule book needs to be altered to prevent that foul from occurring.
He's saying the rule book needs to be altered to prevent that foul from occurring.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 1:03 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
bonafide opportunity
To be fair to the laws of the game, if it is an actual scoring opportunity, it is a red card.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 1:04 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Uhhhhh, no. Especially if a 'bench player' as you say. Think about it.
Bob, you're getting caught up in US television retransmission jargon.
Ive never used the phrase bench player before but you claimed not to understand what he meant so I assumed you were unfamiliar with MCFCs squad and more specifically Garcia's role within it.
Oh, and at your "jargon" comment
Posted on 9/23/12 at 1:06 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
He understands the context of the foul and the yellow within the frameworks of the rule book.
He's saying the rule book needs to be altered to prevent that foul from occurring.
This exactly
Posted on 9/23/12 at 1:16 pm to BobLoblaw
I didn't watch asecond of the match. I know we tied. Don't know the how's of the goals. I assume Gooners scored on ck?
Oh, and guess who is almost 100% going to the return leg in Jan?
This guy!
Oh, and guess who is almost 100% going to the return leg in Jan?
This guy!
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