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re: Can someone explain to me why our youth system is bad?
Posted on 10/20/17 at 1:27 pm to Bill Parker?
Posted on 10/20/17 at 1:27 pm to Bill Parker?
quote:
The kids might get touches on the ball when they meet for practices locally, but they need exposure to the highest level of competition to develop. Again, geography is a huge issue, and will continue to be an issue, outside of the metropolitan areas.
Bill Parker. You get it. I just went through the same process with my son. Mid sized market, top level team, ranked top 5 in their region. Club decides to go to new ECNL league with would require year round travel and be VERY expensive. That doesn’t take into account the toll it takes on your family and being away from home. You are also basically asking your 12-13 year old son to make a decision to go all-in. No other sports, limited time with school friends, and let’s face it, the social fabric of this country and their schools are wrapped around other sports like football/b-ball. So when your son’s buddies start getting more social and chasing girls at weekend school football games, they are hopping in a bus to travel 10 hours to play 2 games. All for what? A potential 1/4 scholarship to college, most likely one with inferior academic standards.
As such, the pool of players that can make it to a high level (mls or other) are limited to kids in major markets with DA’s that CHOOSE to participate. I know many that have chosen as a family not to participate for same reasons above.
The thing is in America you have more options. In other countries, not so much. They see soccer as their only ticket to a better life.
As you can imagine we decided as a family not to participate and if he loves the game enough he can play on his school team or another club team that doesn’t require that commitment.
I know for certain this decision is happening all across the country, obviously to the detriment of the development of US soccer.
2
Posted on 10/20/17 at 1:35 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This is the problem. People don't seem to understand how hard it is to produce athletic, technical players.
They don't seem to realize that you are more likely to end up with Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (or much, much worse) rather than Thierry Henry.
Yea, and Oxlade-Chamberlain is the huge success story of I'm sure 30 other youth players coming through the same system with similar speed and athleticism.
The whole "get better athletes" line of reasoning is mainly just putting the cart before the horse.
It assumes our problem is that we're already producing Pirlo, Scholes or David Silva -- and more importantly hundreds of others that are just below that level but still players that could thrive in the EPL or Serie A --from the regular kids that do go through the system but just need more pace and power to surround them.
Really the exact opposite of our issue.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 2:09 pm to wm72
quote:
Really the exact opposite of our issue.
It is and lord knows I've tried to explain it over and over. My experience with you is hoping the next starlet who is destroyed other 16 year olds can do it at the top level, and honestly the only player who has minimally lived up to expectations has been Jack Wilshere, which I think is a testament unto itself. Wilshere would be utterly ignored in the American system, as would numerous talented, undersized players, and that is the place where America should focus its recruitment efforts, not the 6-3 receiver who is an amazing athlete, but in all likelihood, would end up as a goalkeeper at best.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 2:36 pm to dsides
dsides and Bill Parker:
Thanks for all the really interesting posts. It's nice to get the perspective of parents with kids actually going through the US youth systems.
quote:
The thing is in America you have more options. In other countries, not so much. They see soccer as their only ticket to a better life.
This is where it's mainly an economic issue. It's not that upper middle class kids in Italy aren't making the same decisions as you describe. They're mainly choosing college prep high school instead of football academies unless they're coach's or ex-player's sons. The massive difference is simply all the poor kids in Italy that don't have--or realize they have-- the same "options" are going 110% to make it as a footballer.
More about how well the youth system connects with all the kids from the most impoverished economic groups than really about cherry picking a few super athletes from that group and hoping.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 3:29 pm to crazy4lsu
I agree 100% with your comments. And I feel developing skills is extremely important more so than any other sport. You can learn to run better routes or catch better way easier than you can learn soccer skills. My whole intention here wasn't to downplay skills or say they arent the most important thing. My point was simply to say that major sports in the US take away great athletes from soccer. In other countries, they can play soccer or nothing.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 4:41 pm to The Mick
I don't think soccer is competing for the same athletes. Generally the big three sports favor bigger players, and the demographic we need to focus on is the sub 6 foot demo, as there are plenty of great athletes in this demo who don't fit the profile of the big three sports. Many of the best players in the world are under 6 feet, and some our our best players ever are in this demographic. We should, if anything, focus on that.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 5:47 pm to dsides
Great players are made in practice, not actual games. Esp. prior to late teens.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 5:50 pm to crazy4lsu
Also focus on immigrant and 2nd-3rd generation. Then focus on suburb kids and finally, the so-called urban demographic. I'm AA, but I also realize that last group will be highly resistant to playing soccer as oppose to football/basketball.
I'm not hearing much as far as where our future coaches will come from.
I'm not hearing much as far as where our future coaches will come from.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 6:35 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I don't think soccer is competing for the same athletes.
Are you even around youth soccer? I saw great players that fit your “target player profile” quit soccer on the reg to play other sports. Soccer will have to figure out a way to differentiate and sell the upside of the game over other sports or it will never reach its potential in the US.
Sell the international appeal and ability to travel overseas, the history of the game, etc.
This post was edited on 10/20/17 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 10/20/17 at 6:43 pm to dsides
Players usually quit soccer b/c they're burned out from playing not b/c they suddenly discover basketball or football. H3ll, they might quite sports altogether. Soccer should be fun.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:24 pm to RollTide4Ever
quote:
Players usually quit soccer b/c they're burned out from playing not b/c they suddenly discover basketball or football.
Wrong. The word “burnout” is way overused and a convenient excuse for kids changing priorities and/or not wanting to make the necessary commitment that competitive soccer requires.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:34 pm to dsides
I'm speaking just about the types of players that are successful in overseas programs. If Eden Hazard was born in America, what sport could he have played? I'm not doubting that we have great athletes who choose to play other sports, but what I'm saying is that you don't necessarily need perfect physical specimens if the technical education is superb. From my experience, having studied the youth systems of other countries extensively, we don't have the technical education which would give the players who end up quitting a chance at making it in MLS, or Europe, where big money is being made. These kids might play other sports, but most won't turn professional in those sports either. There is a bit of recruitment to do, but hopefully the exposure of the last couple of years will give players the idea that they can go abroad and make money.
Posted on 10/20/17 at 11:46 pm to RollTide4Ever
quote:
Also focus on immigrant and 2nd-3rd generation. Then focus on suburb kids and finally, the so-called urban demographic. I'm AA, but I also realize that last group will be highly resistant to playing soccer as oppose to football/basketball.
I see it changing, albeit slowly. We have a good many AA in our club, and the majority are very good athletes who benefit from the additional touches on the ball and good coaching. Granted, the main draw remains football and basketball.
My kid had two AA players on his REC team years ago. One was extremely coordinated and fast, and was playing QB on a REC football team at the time. That kid is now a full time soccer player.
But regardless of the demographic, that kid has the same limited opportunities as my kids. Even if kids are nominated for a PDP and the parents choose to undertake the time and expense for some level of potential further development, the end game is still probably JUCO/community college sports or small private college, or nothing at all. I have no problem with that as a parent... I'm raising kids, not professional athletes. I'm just stating the obvious as it pertains to the overall youth system.
Posted on 10/21/17 at 12:00 pm to The Mick
quote:
I agree 100% with your comments. And I feel developing skills is extremely important more so than any other sport. You can learn to run better routes or catch better way easier than you can learn soccer skills. My whole intention here wasn't to downplay skills or say they arent the most important thing. My point was simply to say that major sports in the US take away great athletes from soccer. In other countries, they can play soccer or nothing.
You are correct on the “better athletes playing other sports” argument. You won’t get any love around here with it though. A great, instinctive, hungry young athlete trained properly for his entire life will succeed 99 out of 100 times as opposed to a lesser athlete. It makes all the sense in the world, but the soccer board lifers seem to have too much pride to admit that it IS a lack of elite athletes that is holding our national team back.
quote:
I don't think soccer is competing for the same athletes. Generally the big three sports favor bigger players, and the demographic we need to focus on is the sub 6 foot demo, as there are plenty of great athletes in this demo who don't fit the profile of the big three sports. Many of the best players in the world are under 6 feet, and some our our best players ever are in this demographic. We should, if anything, focus on that
You must not watch much American football. Our best cornerbacks, receivers, running backs that you see every Saturday and sunday during the fall are so far ahead of our current USMNT crop of players respective to their own sport it’s laughable. Those guys are perfect “soccer type athletes.” No one creates athletes or trains them better in the world than America. It’s not close. The problem is they are being trained to play different sports. The argument Mick is making is based on the idea that if the undoubtably superior athletes we produce here spent their lives preparing for a pro soccer career as opposed to baseball, basketball, and football, we would be living in a world where the US dominates soccer like we do in every other sport our country actually cares about. But that’s not changing anytime soon so it’s honestly a pretty frustrating exercise to think would could be.
This post was edited on 10/21/17 at 12:01 pm
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