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Started By
Message
re: You vax clown-experts, get in here and explain your stance
Posted on 9/21/21 at 8:34 am to MrLarson
Posted on 9/21/21 at 8:34 am to MrLarson
One downvote
Which I'm sure is you.
Now, why are you releasing patient information on a public message site?
Your IP address needs to be turned over to authorities.
Which I'm sure is you.
Now, why are you releasing patient information on a public message site?
Your IP address needs to be turned over to authorities.
0
Posted on 9/21/21 at 8:40 am to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
but the antivax stance
There’s anti-vaccination and anti-this-vax. Calling the stance “anti-vax” conflates the positions into one and lumps people who may have reservations about this vaccine in with the “crazies” who are the “anti-vaxxers.”
Secondly, pretending there’s not a context around this vaccine where we’ve been lied to is silly. The media, the government and bureaucracy has pushed so many false narratives over the last year, misrepresented data, and ignored facts. It’s in this context, that we expect people to say, “I trust you, CDC. Let’s do this together.” That’s dumb.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 8:41 am to the808bass
quote:No he's not. Do you have a point in any of your posts? You're starting to post erratically.
You’re conflating the issue and ignoring the context. I hope it makes you feel smarter. It doesn’t make you look smarter.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 8:41 am to AlxTgr
Shut it, idiot. You already bowed out.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 8:51 am to ApexTiger
quote:
If you haven't attended a funeral from someone dying from the Covid
Don't they usually wait until the person is actually dead before they have a funeral?
Posted on 9/21/21 at 9:02 am to MrLarson
quote:
Explain how you're getting patient information for Hellen Keller Hospital?
There’s this thing called Facebook…
Posted on 9/21/21 at 9:03 am to the808bass
quote:Haha
Shut it, idiot.
quote:Of what? Did you go back and re-read? fricking moron
You already bowed out.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 9:03 am to NashvilleTider
quote:
What is your take on natural immunity?
It’s great AFTER you’ve had covid.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 9:07 am to MrLarson
quote:
MrLarson
Dude…are you a stalker?
You do realize what PHI is, right?
Surely you do since you seem so confident with the law.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 9:11 am to yallallcrazy
quote:
ADE is not specific to mRNA vaccines
But what about vaccine-enhanced disease? As listed under "Unknown Risks" in the Pfizer EUA on page 49 of this link
quote:
Available data do not indicate a risk of vaccine-enhanced disease, and conversely suggest
effectiveness against severe disease within the available follow-up period. However, risk of
vaccine-enhanced disease over time, potentially associated with waning immunity, remains
unknown and needs to be evaluated further in ongoing clinical trials and in observational studies
that could be conducted following authorization and/or licensure
Since we only now seem to be in the period of waning immunity, it will be important to learn what the ongoing clinical trial data shows and will continue to show as more people experience waning immunity.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 10:57 am to idsrdum
quote:
But what about vaccine-enhanced disease
It’s the exact same thing. They are talking about ADE. Everything I said above applies. It’s possible whenever you start down the road to a new vaccine, so it’s going to be mentioned as a possible risk and it’s going to be watched for very closely.
It’s also something that happens with certain viral infections. Again, it is dependent on antibodies. It doesn’t care where the antibodies have their origin.
And, it’s not being seen in Covid.
This is why the Facebook ‘look what I found OMG the scientists don’t even know or care about this because they didn’t tell me this could happen OMG’ stuff is such a problem.
It makes it look like some obscure thing when, again, it’s vaccine 101.
This post was edited on 9/21/21 at 11:30 am
Posted on 9/21/21 at 11:59 am to yallallcrazy
quote:
quote:
no human MRNA vax has been successful, and the same is true for animal trials. None have been successful and ADE was the cause for failure.
You said this. It may not be how you meant it, but it basically is saying that mRNA vaccines are bad because ADE. That is incorrect.
You initially alleged that I was saying ADE exist only in mRNA vaccine. I didn't say that and that is not what the quote you listed says. ADE has been the issue with mRNA in animal trials.
quote:
If a person has reason to be concerned about a new vaccine technology, ADE isn’t one.
I disagree. This is a real concern.
NIH: ADE and Informed Consent
From Article:
"Phase 1 trials of several vaccines have not reported any immunopathology in subjects administered the candidate vaccines. However, these subjects were unlikely to have yet encountered circulating virus."
"Similarly, Phase 1 and 2 clinical trials of vaccine candidates have only been designed around immunogenicity as an efficacy end point and have not been designed to capture exposure of subjects to circulating virus after vaccination, which is when ADE/immunopathology is designed to occur. Thus, the absence of ADE evidence in COVID-19 vaccine data so far does not absolve investigators from disclosing the risk of enhanced disease to vaccine trial participants, and it remains a realistic, non-theoretical risk to the subjects."
This article is basically calling out pharma for burying the ADE risk in the informed consent. When evidence is strong and "non-theoretical" that ADE is a huge risk when re-exposed post vaccination, yet the informed consent in the clinical trials is pretty much obscured.
Posted on 9/21/21 at 1:48 pm to jp4lsu
Clearly you didn’t mean it the way I read it, so that’s good. This is what I saw :
So it sounded like you meant the mRNA was the issue. The mRNA part of the above statement is irrelevant. ADE is always a risk of any new vaccine.
And I agree that initially it should be one of the greatest concerns. But here we are, hundreds of millions of doses later, and we aren’t seeing it. If it were going to be a problem it would be seen long before now. This isn’t something that happens gradually. If the antibody/ antigen complex makes it easier for the virus to enter the cell rather than harder, you get sicker. It’s not something that’s going to show years later. once breakthrough infections start you should see it. So, now, it appears to be a non- issue. The breakthrough infections are not worse than the de novo ones. the people who are having reinfections after an infection are not worse than the original infection, which would also be the case if ADE were a thing. Remember, if you had antibodies it would make it worse. They dont have to come from a vaccine, they just have to be there. It’s one of the issues with Dengue. Having had it before can make it worse if you get it again, and infants who are born to Dengue immune mothers can get really sick with it the first time they get it due to effects of maternal immunity.
So, you are correct in theory.
Like I said, ADE is real, it is bad, it is a problem with development of vaccines in general, and it doesn’t appear to be a problem in this case
quote:
no human MRNA vax has been successful … and ADE was the cause
So it sounded like you meant the mRNA was the issue. The mRNA part of the above statement is irrelevant. ADE is always a risk of any new vaccine.
And I agree that initially it should be one of the greatest concerns. But here we are, hundreds of millions of doses later, and we aren’t seeing it. If it were going to be a problem it would be seen long before now. This isn’t something that happens gradually. If the antibody/ antigen complex makes it easier for the virus to enter the cell rather than harder, you get sicker. It’s not something that’s going to show years later. once breakthrough infections start you should see it. So, now, it appears to be a non- issue. The breakthrough infections are not worse than the de novo ones. the people who are having reinfections after an infection are not worse than the original infection, which would also be the case if ADE were a thing. Remember, if you had antibodies it would make it worse. They dont have to come from a vaccine, they just have to be there. It’s one of the issues with Dengue. Having had it before can make it worse if you get it again, and infants who are born to Dengue immune mothers can get really sick with it the first time they get it due to effects of maternal immunity.
So, you are correct in theory.
Like I said, ADE is real, it is bad, it is a problem with development of vaccines in general, and it doesn’t appear to be a problem in this case
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