re: You Cannot Legislate Gun Violence Away Without Ending The 2nd Amendment

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Expand on that.

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Easy to say. Tell us how. “More funding” is painfully naive.

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Just use the evaluation system we have currently in place. That system is not efficient because it is not properly funded.

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Except that’s not actually true. Going to court to commit someone is not expensive. I don’t know any psychiatrist thst has been turned away from a court because he court refused to the commitment hearing. Not a single one. Maybe it happens, but if so... it’s far, far from common.

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Except that’s not actually true. Going to court to commit someone is not expensive. I don’t know any psychiatrist thst has been turned away from a court because he court refused to the commitment hearing. Not a single one. Maybe it happens, but if so... it’s far, far from common.

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the only time someone should be subject to this is because of the determination of a qualified legal official in the community. Not someone going to court to "commit' someone who may have an ax to grind.

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Are they the legal official designed by that community? No? Then no, they can't do it.

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Ok. So... leave it like it is now?

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But good news is... there are people out there who can.

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There aren’t. First, in most places you cannot get a psychiatric appointment for months. There is no magic surplus of psychiatrists running around. Second, the degree of reliability you’re implying simply does not exist.

That’s why I was curios why you believe this is so simple.

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You not knowing doesn't mean you are correct.

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Troof. But I’m not the one claiming the efficacy of expanding commitments. That was your claim, so use real world data to show it would have worked.

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No bond. In jail until your trial.

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that's also unconstitutional

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Within two years gun crimes would be down by 75%. Or more.

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you sir are a raving moron

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There aren’t. First, in most places you cannot get a psychiatric appointment for months. There is no magic surplus of psychiatrists running around.

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So... more resources would fix that problem. I'm aware that bringing resources to these issues isn't an overnight fix.

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Second, the degree of reliability you’re implying simply does not exist.

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Are you saying the current system is unreliable, as in, the mental health professionals are not doing a good enough job deciding who should be committed and who should not?

If you think the current mental health professionals are unable to correctly do their jobs... then there is probably nothing more for us to discuss in this thread.

For the current system is a "yes commit, no don't commit" system. If they can't handle that, then our mental health problem in this country is much, much, much worse than ever imagined.

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Troof. But I’m not the one claiming the efficacy of expanding commitments. That was your claim, so use real world data to show it would have worked.

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Admittedly, that's difficult to show. Because cuts in mental health have caused a reduction in commits, not an increase. We also have an increase in these types of events.

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So... more resources would fix that problem. I'm aware that bringing resources to these issues isn't an overnight fix

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So you’ll have to first have to increase the number of psychiatric residency slots by 8-10x. Then you’ll have to fill them (Hint: it’s not a competitive specialty, not uncommon to slots unfilled).

Then you'll have to find docs willing to work for the government and take the legal liability certifying people as sane enough to own firearms.

Some nnumbers... right now there about 28,000 psychiatrists in he country. Lets say you double thst to 56,000 ( alone that’ll take 4 years, if you could somehow find 28,000 residency applicants) .

There are roughly 111 million gun owners. That works out 1,984 owners per psychiatrist. You’d fill every psychiatrist (2x what it is today) in the country with an annual 1 hour visit, And there would no psychiatrists left to treat anyone with real mental illness. Silliness.

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Are you saying the current system is unreliable, as in, the mental health professionals are not doing a good enough job deciding who should be committed and who should not?

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Nope. I’m saying no psychiatrist—no matter how excellent they are—is capable of predicting what someone will do in the future.

Simply not possible. It is very difficult to assess patients. It can’t be done in a single 1-hour clinical setting. It’s not a differentially-diagnosed field. There is no blood test for “crazy”.

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For the current system is a "yes commit, no don't commit" system. If they can't handle that, then our mental health problem in this country is much, much, much worse than ever imagined.

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You’re still missing the point.

The process of commuting someone isn’t where the difficulty lies. The difficulty lies in finding who to commit. The mentally ill don’t walk around with a sign around their neck. And most mentallly-ill never seek treatment. Threatening to “lock them up” en masse. Isn’t likely to encourage them to come forward, either.

So the only (un)real hope here is forcing people to submit to testing and examination (that actually works reliably well).

Does that sound like a “free society” you’d like to live in?

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Admittedly, that's difficult to show.

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It’s difficult because it doesn’t exist. As my modeling mentor was fond of saying “if you’re working too hard to find a relationship, it probably doesn’t exist”.

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Because cuts in mental health have caused a reduction in commits, not an increase. We also have an increase in these types of events.

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Well it also coincides with an increase in emails, too. Let’s ban that!!