re: Would you pardon Edward Snowden? Chealsea Manning?

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Snowden gave up a cushy job, his family and his comfortable life to inform his countrymen of their government's lies and deceit.

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He was an unmarried childless IT contractor. He was making good money, but his employment wasn't exactly stable.

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I can't comprehend how some see him as a villain.

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That part where he traveled to Moscow and handed over a massive amount of our government's most sensitive secrets and methods to the FSB is what did it for me.

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Snowden gave up a cushy job, his family and his comfortable life to inform his countrymen of their government's lies and deceit. I can't comprehend how some see him as a villain.

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The WSJ had a pretty good piece The Fable of Edward Snowden that paints a less noble picture of Edward Snowden. As you may guess by the title, the author does not share the same opinion of Snowden as you do. But it's still a pretty good read about what he did, particularly while was in Russia... you know enemy #1 (regardless of what Trump says)

And for what it's worth, I'm a big fan of keeping the government in check. A healthy suspicion of what the government is doing is always a good thing. But there are right ways and wrong ways to do it.

Also, a lesser point. Don't give me that cushy job crap like he took that job because of its great pay and benefits. He took it with the full intention of stealing and exposing.

Manning is a coward who got his fellow soldiers killed. Screw that guy.

Snowden is a complicated case. Ultimately, he sold out to Russia. So, no.

What evidence do we have that Snowden tried to engage in established whistleblower channels before stealing and fleeing?

The NSA has acknowledged that Snowden emailed the Office of General Counsel in April 2013 to raise them of his concerns about the data collection programs. Because the existence of the programs had been denied or were classified, he was told to stay silent about the matter.

Beyond this, anyone who looked at what occurred to Thomas Drake, William Binney, Ed Loomis and Kirk Wiebe during the Bush and Obama administrations would have known reporting this was futile. Our NSA director lied to a sitting U.S. Senator in a congressional hearing for god's sake and Senator Wyden couldn't say anything about it.

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Established whistleblower channels is an oxymoron.

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It's a nice quip and convenient cover for someone who made no significant effort to blow the whistle before traveling into places covered up with MSS and SVR/FSB folks carrying sensitive US and US ally information.

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I have not lied in any of my posts about him or his actions.

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Call it whatever you want. Pretending that Snowden is a swell guy for what he did is a lie.

The fact is you have zero proof, other than statements made by those who were or are employed by the intelligence community, that Snowden didn't attempt to raise the issue.

In a normal criminal trial, which I do for a living, Snowden's lawyers would be able to file a Brady Motion to obtain communications to prove whether or not he raised the issue before the NSA's OGC, which would be necessary for him to seek immunity under the Whistleblower Act.

However, because Snowden would be charged under the Espionage Act, immunity under the Whistleblower Act becomes irrelevant, which means the NSA would not have to produce these communications, as Snowden would not be able to raise a justification defense.

This is why the government continually tells you Snowden is a traitor and never revealed to them his complaints. They know the Espionage Act shields them from disclosing communications between Snowden, his superiors and OGC.

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The fact is you have zero proof, other than statements made by those who were or are employed by the intelligence community, that Snowden didn't attempt to raise the issue.

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You have Snowden's word plus an email released by the NSA that doesn't align with your claim of what transpired.

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However, because Snowden would be charged under the Espionage Act, immunity under the Whistleblower Act becomes irrelevant, which means the NSA would not have to produce these communications, as Snowden would not be able to raise a justification defense.

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Snowden has claimed to possess evidence of his whistleblowing activities and hasn't released them. He has produced no evidence of OSC reporting. I have never encountered an alleged whistleblower (or anyone bringing a retaliation claim in the IC) who doesn't have documentation of their reporting.

Your distinction regarding the Espionage Act rendering the WPA irrelevant is humorous because it is blaming the consequences of Snowden's subsequent action for the lack of evidence of his claimed (but entirely unsubstantiated) prior inaction.