re: Women in Combat Arms: The Master Thread

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Why isn't it the same DOD wide, from the Intel troop to the DFAC wench?

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It is, in the same context as physical fitness standards. There is a minimum score. I've never advocated that surgeons should be able to pass A&S.

I'm also against ASVAB waivers, if you were curious.

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The problem is they are not Marine infantry fit.

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I've never said they should be. Apologies if that wasn't clear.

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you should meet established standards of medical practice. 

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That's not exactly valid. More accurate would be if I said that you should meet the standards of a recon Marine, and I've never said that.

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There are standards across the military profession. Physical fitness is just one of them.

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Right, and they are sometimes ignored because someone can count inventory well. That's all I'm arguing against.

When I have time this evening I'm going to read this entire thread and the sub thread.

I was a nuclear trained Electrician's Mate on a sub and I can't fricking fathom how shitty it would be to have women on board. Those poor bastards at 600 ft deep having to deal with all that bullshite.

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Right, and they are sometimes ignored because someone can count inventory well. That's all I'm arguing against.

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I am against it as well. And it does happen. Much too often. Each commander has to look in the mirror and determine if they are doing what is best for the institution rather than the individual. It is the burden of command. And too often many do not measure up to that burden. They look the other way (the obese Soldier on the previous page is a perfect example). His commander is at fault for permitting that situation.

And they do. I misunderstood your point that they needed to be at infantry level. There is no way it is going to happen. And I am willing to accept that risk for optimal healthcare. But they have to meet the minimum. And (for the most part), they do.

Trust me, there is a completely different culture as to what is considered excellence. You have to embrace their culture and draw out the best in them. They want to excel as well. They just define it differently.

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for the most part

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This is my issue with it. I'm not limiting that to the medical field, either. "For the most part" is far too prevalent if you ask me.

Next issue, what type of authority do medical professionals have? It's the same as anyone else, right?

They have the same rights and authorities that any commissioned or noncommissioned officer has. They exercise them as their duties require. Some better. Some worse.

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This was the mindset of the HQcentric Russian military doctrine.

It's bad Steve really bad.

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The top Generals have had this mindset for years.

Our military leadership is risk averse. It has shunned initiative and demonized risk taking. This lead to an environment where shitty officers without integrity could be promoted and given positions of authority. Those shitty officers without any integrity are the ones who fostered a culture of letting standards slide for your friends. Our officer corps is broken from the top down.

And that's the problem with Champagne's theory on civil-military relations. That entire theory is based off the contstruct that "military proffessionals" act with a sense of integrity. That integrity is gone, especially at the top. Most officers with integrity, drive, or initiative leave the service quickly. For the most part it's the careerists make it to the top. These General's have hidden behind the concept of civilian control of the military and "just following orders" for the sake of their careers instead of doing their DUTY to the country and speaking out against policies that hurt the military and the country. Civilian control of the military does not relieve you of your duties to do the right thing. It does not give you a pass to look the other way when the military is being harmed.

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Maybe it's the community I grew up in, but I don't see getting rid of someone that can't meet the ridiculously low standards as a significant loss.

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That's a fair point and I understand that, I am saying a one size fits all cookie cutter approach isn't always the best solution.

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Nope, but it has to start somewhere.

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Perhaps I OTOH abhor the over regulation of outstanding leaders to preclude the possibility of a few shitbirds gaming the system. YMMV