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re: Why do we not like Russia?

Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:22 pm to
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

They didn't justify it, Rob. They just claimed it wasn't them.


And i doubt their claim

I also doubt the plane was merely transporting people

I'm sure you'll agree that if the Russians suspected that, they probably don't want to admit how they knew.

Im merely saying the righteous indignation from the side that likely used that plane is a shade disingenuous
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
133642 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:27 pm to
quote:

Russian government stages bombing and killed it own citizens then blamed Crimea ,
Chechnya, not Crimea.
quote:

they just wanted a reason to invade Crimea to have access to the sea
Russia already has access to the Black Sea with or without Crimea.
quote:

Vladimir Putin’s orders kills or in prisons his vocal critics
"or in prisons"??? Again, is English your first language?
quote:

They are engaged in cypher warfare
Cyber??
quote:

They people are not evil
"They" people?? WTF??

You truly are functionally illiterate.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14975 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:32 pm to
@LSURussian

Hey curious what you think of my take. Go back a page (or 2) if you don't mind.

DO IT!!
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39298 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

I also doubt the plane was merely transporting people


There has been no evidence that I've seen that the plane was anything other than a civilian aircraft. Why would the Russians think an international flight of the national airline of Malaysia, headed to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam, had anything to do with the war in Donbass? The most likely reason for MH17 being shot down was because the Ukrainian Air Force was operating in the region, and with the missile launcher in the hands of rebels, a missile launcher provided by the Russians, the rebels thought that it was an aircraft of the UAF rather than a civilian aircraft.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11528 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:42 pm to
This is a weird quasi-justification, Rob.

Will you really begrudge anyone indignation for a civilian jet being shot down without any actual proof that there was a justification? I guess you will.

In any case, one good thing came of that incident. AIVD started casing Cozy Bear and their hacking allowed them to pass us inside info on the DNC hack.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 1:50 pm to
quote:


Will you really begrudge anyone indignation for a civilian jet being shot down without any actual proof that there was a justification? I guess you will.


You have no proof that the Russians officially authorized the downing but, that didn't prevent your first post i responded to

Personally. I think even if civilian planes were being used to spy, if the Russians officially targeted them, that's shite.

I can simply hold two thoughts in my head at once on the subject. That's all
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11528 posts
Posted on 3/21/18 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

We whipped their arse in the cold war. Now like any victor we were willing to move on. But a LOT of people in Russia combined their:

1. sense of loss from being one of the top two world powers (we were #1 of course)
2. the humiliation of losing
3. the disillusionment of how "capitalism" has manifested it self itself in Russia an oligarchical kleptocracy.

Of course they can't blame themselves, human nature being what it is, so they blame their old enemy. Aided by politicians who capitalize on the old animosity, and the compliant media that work for them, the west in general and the US in specific are the cause for all their woes.

So they seek to thwart and stymie us because that's what they want. BUT they don't really want open confrontation because they know that ends badly for them. So they nip at our heels and do what they can to weaken us without an outright confrontation.

It's not a rational strategy, but it is a hell of a lot easier than trying to reform the Russian political and economic system. So in that sense it is a "politically rational" path, I guess.


quoting this in full because it's excellent and deserves a re-post. I'd just add that Putin's attitude towards the west seems to have been shifting over the past 10 years and really seems to have been greatly affected by seeing how Qadaffi's attempt to make peace with the NATO countries didn't save him from being toppled and excecuted. Putin seems to see himself in a corner without other good options.
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