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re: "Why Do People Persist in Believing Things That Just Aren't True?"
Posted on 5/20/14 at 4:56 pm to Godfather1
Posted on 5/20/14 at 4:56 pm to Godfather1
quote:
if God really does exist, then by default, Rex isn't the smartest guy in the room.
Rex isn't the smartest guy in the room when he's alone.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 5:57 pm to Revelator
quote:
So science should be lauded only when it concludes correct findings, but we are never really sure if they are correct, but just presently assumed to be so, right?
Science, as an abstract concept, isn't "wrong" or "right", it merely is. It is the reality of the nature of the world around us.
Our interpretation of science can be wrong, and our findings can be wrong, but "science" as a concept is reality. It isn't "wrong" any more so than the natural world can be "wrong".
This post was edited on 5/20/14 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 5/20/14 at 6:35 pm to Revelator
quote:
Yeah one of those people that won't blindly follow everything science says as gospel because history proves that what they claim is truth today is tomorrow's fiction.
The problem is that you don't reject it for logical, scientific reasons. You don't understand the scientific issues well enough to have any sort of opinion on their accuracy. You reject certain ideas while accepting others because some ideas don't jive with your dogmatic religious belief.
If you are well-versed academically in a given field and have hard data disproving an idea or come up with a better one by all means present it. That is what science is all about, new and better ideas rooted in evidence. What you are doing is merely a simplistic rejection of ideas you don't like. If you were being consistent you would reject ALL science because it could all be wrong, but of course you don't do that. You pick and choose what science will turn out to be tomorrow's fiction and what will withstand the test of time, and these choices are based in everything but science.
This post was edited on 5/20/14 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 5/20/14 at 6:40 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The problem is that you don't reject it for logical, scientific reasons. You don't understand the scientific issues well enough to have any sort of opinion on their accuracy. You reject certain ideas while accepting others because some ideas don't jive with your dogmatic religious belief. If you are well-versed academically in a given field and have hard data disproving an idea or come up with a better one by all means present it. That is what science is all about, new and better ideas rooted in evidence. What you are doing is merely a simplistic rejection of ideas you don't like.
I could say the same thing about people who have never had a personal relationship with Christ, have only read portions of the bible, or have no understanding of scriptural understanding that is Spirit revealed. This though, doesn't stop the unlearned from commenting or making naive statements about things they barely understand.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 6:45 pm to Revelator
How did this thread become a discussion of religion????
Posted on 5/20/14 at 6:48 pm to Revelator
quote:
I could say the same thing about people who have never had a personal relationship with Christ
No, you couldn't. A personal relationship with a deity isn't quantifiable, it isn't observable, it cannot be studied or documented.
quote:
have only read portions of the bible
The proportion of believers and non-believers in America who have read the Bible in its entirety isn't very different. I, and most non-believers I know, have read the bible at least once cover to cover. Your mistake is assuming that all non-believers are as ignorant of religion as you are of science.
quote:
no understanding of scriptural understanding that is Spirit revealed
Again, this cannot be studied.
quote:
This though, doesn't stop the unlearned from commenting or making naive statements about things they barely understand.
Yes, plenty of nonbelievers make comments about religion and the bible they have no business making. That doesn't make the statement less true if they are, in fact, true. Just because someone who has never read the bible talks about biblical contradiction it doesn't mean that there are no contradictions.
The number of non-believers with a very strong understanding of Christianity is much higher than you seem to think it is however. I'd go so far as to say the average knowledge of the bible among ALL Christians (not just the devout ones) and ALL professed nonbelievers would be indistinguishable if it were tested.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 6:51 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Again, this cannot be studied.
So it's your premiss that everything is measurable by science, and if not, it doesn't exist?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 6:54 pm to Revelator
You compared commenting on science with insufficient understanding to commenting on religion with insufficient understanding, and I simply said that is not an acceptable equivalency.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:01 pm to Revelator
quote:
Yeah science surely is a candle in the dark. One day coffee is good for you, the next it's not. One day butter is bad for you, another it's not. One generation frontal lobotomies and giving kids heroin and cocaine is good, the next, not........ Got to love it!
People who say this clearly don't understand the most basic concepts of science.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:11 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
Yet scientists are quick to assert that the current conclusions are totally correct. Scientists do tend to have this god like opinion of themselves.
If that is their findings and no one has the evidence to refute it, why should they not be confident in it?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:13 pm to Revelator
quote:
So doctors who prescribed frontal lobotomies for patients or gave opiates to small children weren't part of the scientific field? And nutritionist don't use science to come up with their recommendations? And astronomers who once thought the earth was flat or that the sun revolved around the earth weren't part of science?
Science evolves with the times. 2000 year old religious texts don't.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:14 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
People who say this clearly don't understand the most basic concepts of science.
So you disagree that medicine and the study of nutrition fall under the heading of science?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:16 pm to Revelator
quote:
So you disagree that medicine and the study of nutrition fall under the heading of science?
Of course not, but you don't understand the basic concept of the fact that science is continually evolving, and we can only make the best guesses with the information at hand. Sometimes these are pretty damn conclusive, other times not.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:18 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
If that is their findings and no one has the evidence to refute it, why should they not be confident in it?
Because science has never been wrong? Shouldn't scientists live with a little doubt and uncertainty given the historical record?
Many times what was considered a hard truth has later been found to be false. If I were a scientist, I'd have to be looking over my shoulder. For all of those who believe that science is the ultimate truth, just read a little history.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:18 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Science evolves with the times. 2000 year old religious texts don't.
What good did the evolution of science do for those who underwent forced sterilizations, were given lobotomies or kids who suffered radiation poisoning from fluoroscopes? And what good will that evolving science do to those who go through this current life believing as fact things that will be disproven in future generations?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:19 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
the earth was created 6000 years ago. its fricking bizarre, especially he worked as an engineer for oil companies for most of his life.
That I find to be totally incomprehensible.
How can you function as a petroleum engineer and think the earth was created only 6000 years ago.
sum ting wong.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:20 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
People who say this clearly don't understand the most basic concepts of science.
It really is like trying to talk computer operating systems with a bank teller from the 1930s.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:22 pm to Revelator
quote:
What good did the evolution of science do for those who underwent forced sterilizations, were given lobotomies or kids who suffered radiation poisoning from fluoroscopes?
What good did the "evolution" of religion (if we can call a less dogmatic stance evolution) do for the thousands burned at the stake by the catholic church? What good did it do all the "witches" Christians killed? What good did it do for the millions who have been killed in the name of Islam?
This is a silly exercise.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:22 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Of course not, but you don't understand the basic concept of the fact that science is continually evolving, and we can only make the best guesses with the information at hand. Sometimes these are pretty damn conclusive, other times not.
So the" candle in the dark" metaphor was a way of symbolizing that science takes blind stabs in the dark instead of exclaiming that it lights the path of knowledge?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 7:24 pm to Gray Tiger
quote:
Because science has never been wrong?
No, but why shouldn't I be proud of a five year study I headed, got it peer reviewed as fairly conclusive, and have had nothing to refute it? You've got to have confidence in your work.
quote:
Shouldn't scientists live with a little doubt and uncertainty given the historical record?
What do you mean by "historical record"?
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