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re: Who do you think you worship?
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:42 pm to Powerman
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:42 pm to Powerman
You all seem way more religious scholars than me.
So hopefully you can better help me understand the following.
Anyone who believes in any particular religion, believes that the only way to salvation is through their particular belief system, which by default means that the majority of the world's population will not find salvation (whatever you believe, the majority of the world's population believes something different).
So what kind of a god is it who designs a system where the majority fail and suffer for eternity?
So hopefully you can better help me understand the following.
Anyone who believes in any particular religion, believes that the only way to salvation is through their particular belief system, which by default means that the majority of the world's population will not find salvation (whatever you believe, the majority of the world's population believes something different).
So what kind of a god is it who designs a system where the majority fail and suffer for eternity?
2
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:51 pm to gothamdawg
Temptation and sin is not from God, but from the devil. It is the snake that makes it hard.
God saw how hard it was to resist and do right, so he sent his only son to die for you. He made it real simple, love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself. That's all you need to do, the rest will come as you do those two things.
God saw how hard it was to resist and do right, so he sent his only son to die for you. He made it real simple, love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself. That's all you need to do, the rest will come as you do those two things.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:53 pm to rooster108bm
quote:
Biblically explain infant baptisim.
Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 16:15
Here Lydia is baptized along with her household. It doesn't specify on the adults.
Acts 16:33
The jailer is baptized along with his entire household. Not only the adults.
Acts 22:16
"Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name"
This verse is universal and not restricted to adults.
Luke 18:15
"People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them"
He then rebuked anyone who would hinder children from coming to Him.
Col. 2:11–12
Paul states that baptism is the new circumcision. Infants were circumcised in the Old Testament in anticipation of being raised in the Jewish faith, just as infants are baptized in the New Testament in anticipation of being raised in the Christian faith.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 3:57 pm to Stitches
quote:
Repent and be baptized,
Explain how an infant repents.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:00 pm to Stitches
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:05 pm to BigHeads
quote:
Read Matthew 16 again. Tell exactly where it says ONE church. Where does he presume to install this holier than thou attitude you have?
Words such as one faith, one baptism, my church (singular), etc. He couldn't have been referring to multiple branches of one Christian faith when most of them fundamentally disagree on the different tenants of that faith.
quote:
This is precisely the attitude the Pharisees had, and precisely what Jesus spent his life fighting against
True but I have debated him and Foo before, and so I was simply predicting what he would say next based on history.
quote:
On the contrary! We could all three have planks in our eyes. And do not presume to limit the Word of God by saying it has only one right answer. Jesus is the Word, and his power is not limited by you or me.
Fair point
quote:
2000 years of history does not mean 2000 years of righteousness. "In truth, all have fallen short of the glory of God"
It does when Jesus specifically states that Hell will never prevail against that church, meaning its official teachings can't be fallible. Individuals within the church are surely fallible, including the Pope, but the church itself cannot be.
quote:
The message is simple and entirely relevant. Beware the hypocrites who offer long prayers, and do things for appearances sake. They clean the outside but not the inside of the cup.
I honestly don't follow your point with this one.
quote:
He wants you to do it with love and compassion, not by calling their words and prayers "unholy interpretations". What makes your prayers any more right than that of your brothers? So I say to you, pluck the log out of your own eye first.
I'm referring to interpretation of scripture not prayers.
quote:
I agree it is not right to bash those of another Christian faith. Which is exactly what I am trying to stop right here. He who is not against us is for us.
100% agree with you here. I need to work on that.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:07 pm to rooster108bm
quote:Covenant theology (God works in history through covenants). The sign of the old covenant was circumcision (Gen. 15, 17) and the sign of the new covenant is baptism (Col. 2:11-12).
Biblically explain infant baptisim.
Arguments for baptizing children:
1. The new covenant is less restrictive than the old covenant, which is why the sign is given to girls and boys rather than just boys in circumcision, and why the sign is given to Jew and Gentile alike (Gal. 3:28)
2. The new covenant sign is given to children of believing parents just as the old covenant sign was given to children of believing parents (Rom. 4; 1 Cor. 7:13-14)
3. Entire households were baptized on the basis of a believing adult (Acts 16:15; 30-35)
4. There were many objections and controversies that needed to be dealt with, yet there was no issue with children being removed from the covenant?
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:14 pm to Stitches
quote:
Luke 18:15
Bringing babies so he would touch them [touch them, not baptism them]
quote:
Acts 2:38-39
Repent and be baptized, promise is for you and your children. Babies can't repent, they can't make that conscious decision or even speak it. Children can.
quote:
Acts 16:15
Lydia and house hold, no mention of babies.
quote:
Acts 16:33
The jailer is baptized with his household. No mention of babies. Not al, households have babies.
quote:
Acts 22:16
This is about Ananias baptizing Paul, not a baby.
quote:
Col. 2:11–12
This is talking of circumsion being replaced by baptism, no mention of babies.
Genesis 17:12 specifically mentions children 8 days old to be circumcised.
Whatever religion you are following, it sure seems to like to add words and make assumptions. We are warned of that.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:14 pm to Stitches
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:24 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Probably a mistake to open up Bible scripture and dogma to lay people.
The curiosity and intelligence of "Lay people" shouldn't be under-estimated. I'm also a "Lay Person" compared to many others; I welcome learning and spiritual inspiration from whomever I can.
quote:
Too many people start acting like and thinking they are John Calvin.
Nothing wrong with thinking like John Calvin. Scriptures do specifically mention God's "Elect."
I think there IS a problem when people *stop* discussing Truth or Scripture because someone may be offended; That's what's given us PC-ism, Snowflake-ism and Cancels.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:26 pm to arcalades
quote:
for starters, his name is Jesus. If you think his name is Jesus, you should at least pronounce it Yesus bc that's how that name was pronounced when the first edition of the King James version was printe
I don't know why this has become an issue in the last decade or so.
Yes we know the Hebrew name is Yeshua. No, we don't care because "on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”" and that's the only name that matters.
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:27 pm to Stitches
quote:
Words such as one faith, one baptism, my church (singular), etc. He couldn't have been referring to multiple branches of one Christian faith when most of them fundamentally disagree on the different tenants of that faith.
quote:
It does when Jesus specifically states that Hell will never prevail against that church, meaning its official teachings can't be fallible. Individuals within the church are surely fallible, including the Pope, but the church itself cannot be.
When He said His Church, it wasn't a building or organization, but the people. His believers, we are all His church.
Ephesians 1:22-23
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
quote:
I honestly don't follow your point with this one
I'll remove whatever point I was trying to make. I can be corrected too.
quote:
I'm referring to interpretation of scripture not prayers.
Same thing. You can not interpret the scripture without prayer.
Psalms 119 has numerous quotes about praying for understanding
Many quotes about this throughout
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 5/18/22 at 4:35 pm to Stitches
quote:
That doesnt give him [Luther] the right to establish his own faith.
Thanks. That's *a* narrative but not *the* truth of the matter.
Yes, Christ's ONE Church. And according to His Word as per Sola Scriptura. No addenda included. IT is THE ONLY "Authority" . Not man or any "Vicar of Christ".
quote:
How many churches can trace their lineage back to the 1st century again? That's what I thought.
That's what you thought? Lol, Stop. I suppose this where you cite Christ as crowning Peter is His "Rock" and leading Papal secession and onto dying on the Papal/Vatican hill?
quote:
And the fact that Luther thought he could remove several books, and add words to others makes him nothing more than a heretic.
Really? Which exact books and words did Luther subtract OR add?
But I'll respond in kind on the above and the rest of your rebuttal.
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:20 pm to rooster108bm
quote:
Explain how an infant repents
They can't. That specific verse was directed at an adult crowd. However, the promise that Peter made to the adults was specifically extended to their children as well.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:27 pm to BigHeads
Show me where in scripture Christ says that children are excluded from baptism.
It never mentions that only adults are to be baptized, nor does it mention that infants cannot be baptized. However, the early church fathers universally supported infant baptism.
Circumcision was replaced by baptism as you stated, and infants were circumcised at 8 days old.
You know what religion I'm following, and it does not add words or make assumptions. Infant baptism has been practiced in the church since the beginning. Other faiths later did away with that practice.
John 3:5 and Mark 16:16 are clear that nobody enters heaven without baptism of water and spirit. Show me where scripture excludes infants from this statement.
It never mentions that only adults are to be baptized, nor does it mention that infants cannot be baptized. However, the early church fathers universally supported infant baptism.
Circumcision was replaced by baptism as you stated, and infants were circumcised at 8 days old.
You know what religion I'm following, and it does not add words or make assumptions. Infant baptism has been practiced in the church since the beginning. Other faiths later did away with that practice.
John 3:5 and Mark 16:16 are clear that nobody enters heaven without baptism of water and spirit. Show me where scripture excludes infants from this statement.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:35 pm to Stitches
quote:
Show me where scripture excludes infants from this statement.
To my knowledge it does not specifically exclude babies, nor does it include them. It does mention that you must repent and be baptized. A baby cannot make the choice to repent. So to your point, it can be argued both ways, and I cannot definitively argue my side over yours.
I will say however, that I was baptized as a baby, but as an adult, I realized it wasn't enough and I needed to make the choice to follow Him. I was so convicted of it, that I was baptized in front of the congregation that same week.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:52 pm to Liberator
Show me with scripture that scripture is the only authority.
Correct, because to interpret that any other way would require mental gymnastics in order to reach the conclusion that you hold.
You are Kepa (sizable rock/boulder in Aramaic, which is what Jesus spoke, not Kephas/Lethos that means little rock in Greek), and on this Kepa I will build my Church. He's always listed first. Is always treated as the leader of the apostles by the apostles, had his named changed which is always a super important point in scripture, was referred to as the chosen one in Rome, etc etc
He didn't consider the Deuteronomical texts to be scripture, moved them to after the old Testament, and referred to them separately as the Apocrypha. He also added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 when he translated it to German.
Now you'll argue that he didn't change the doctrine of the Greek translation, and instead just more accurately translated it to German.
We will have to agree to disagree.
quote:
That's what you thought? Lol, Stop. I suppose this where you cite Christ as crowning Peter is His "Rock" and leading Papal secession and onto dying on the Papal/Vatican hill?
Correct, because to interpret that any other way would require mental gymnastics in order to reach the conclusion that you hold.
You are Kepa (sizable rock/boulder in Aramaic, which is what Jesus spoke, not Kephas/Lethos that means little rock in Greek), and on this Kepa I will build my Church. He's always listed first. Is always treated as the leader of the apostles by the apostles, had his named changed which is always a super important point in scripture, was referred to as the chosen one in Rome, etc etc
quote:
Really? Which exact books and words did Luther subtract OR add?
He didn't consider the Deuteronomical texts to be scripture, moved them to after the old Testament, and referred to them separately as the Apocrypha. He also added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 when he translated it to German.
Now you'll argue that he didn't change the doctrine of the Greek translation, and instead just more accurately translated it to German.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:54 pm to BigHeads
so edgy.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:57 pm to gothamdawg
quote:
Anyone who believes in any particular religion, believes that the only way to salvation is through their particular belief system, which by default means that the majority of the world's population will not find salvation (whatever you believe, the majority of the world's population believes something different).
So what kind of a god is it who designs a system where the majority fail and suffer for eternity?
If you have knowledge of God and His Son Jesus Christ you are simply making a choice to believe or reject the Truth…. You can not have a personal relationship with the Creator without exercising free will, that’s the most important attribute God gave man….God doesn’t want robots, He wants people who recognize His holiness, His righteousness and His perfect love. There’s a very good reason why the Bible frequently uses the analogy of separating the wheat from the chaff or parables that explain why some will love and embrace the gift of Salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and why others will reject the message of the Gospel. Let those with ears to hear…. hear.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 6:01 pm to BigHeads
I simp af for Camille Vasquez, but it's hardly worship.
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