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Message
What single-payer healthcare looks like
Posted on 9/14/17 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 9/14/17 at 1:54 pm
We only have to look to our neighbor to the north for a great example of what BernieCare looks like.
1. Canada has the worst ER wait time of the world's 11 largest economies.
2. Canada also topped the list for having the highest proportion of patients with long delays to see specialists, with 56% waiting longer than four weeks, compared with the international average of 36%.
In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner.
3. Since they're less incentivized there, Canada has a shortage of healthcare providers.
4. Canada has much less modern hospitals than the US. The worst US hospital is likely more up-to-date on technology and efficient than the best Canadian hospital.
5. Canadians don't enjoy the personalized Dr-patient experience of their US neighbors.
6. Canadian healthcare innovation (R&D) barely exists.
7. Contrary to popular belief among Americans, health care is not entirely free for Canadians. Dental, ambulance and many other services as well as prescription medications must be paid for out of pocket or they're covered through a combination of public programs and private health insurance. About two-thirds of Canadians have such insurance.
8. Wealthy Canadians are visiting the US in increasing numbers to obtain state-of-the-art procedures AND to receive care for illnesses which are potentially life-threatening considering the long wait to see a specialist in Canada.
The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.
9. Canada has Gov panels set up to determine whether patients will receive a prescribed treatment/procedure. This is kind of a healthcare rationing.
Bureaucrats, not doctors, decide which procedures and treatments are covered under the CHA — based on data and statistics rather than on the needs of patients.
To address scarcity in the health-care system, government central planners ration care and cap the number of procedures offered in a given year, leading to queues, longer wait times, and a deterioration in the quality of care.
10. While medical providers are independent from the federal government, they are compelled to accept CHA insurance —and nothing else — by a prohibition on accepting payments outside the national-insurance scheme so long as they wish to continue accepting federal health-transfer funds. The spigot of money from Ottawa thus ensures a de facto government monopoly in the health-insurance market.
11. Canadians pay for health insurance through their taxes; most never see a medical bill. But that doesn’t mean the system is affordable. Au contraire, it relies almost entirely on current taxpayers to subsidize the disproportionately large health-care needs of elderly Canadians in their final few years of life. Rather than pre-funding the system to deal with the coming tsunami of aging Baby Boomers, Canada’s provincial governments pay and borrow as they go — and rank among the most indebted sub-sovereign borrowers in the world. According to Don Drummond, an economist appointed by Ontario’s Liberal government to help fix its finances, Canada’s largest province is projected to see health-care costs soar to the point where they will consume 80 percent of the entire provincial budget by 2030, up from 46 percent in 2010.
12. Canada’s quality of care is poor, and it continues to deteriorate in the face of a looming fiscal crunch and further rationing. In Canada’s single-payer system, citizens cannot pay directly for procedures, and they cannot purchase private insurance to cover services provided by the CHA. They must instead wait in line or seek health-care services outside the country.
13. Many Canadians — and many progressives abroad — like to think that health care is “free” in Canada, when in fact, Canadian taxpayers pay, on average, $10,500 per year for all their health-care needs. Canadians simply have no concept of how much the services they consume cost, since the CHA prohibits providers from ever showing patients a bill.
14. Canada’s single-payer system is made possible only by an accident of geography: It is propped up by the U.S. health-care industry next door, which provides a parallel private system for very sick and very rich Canadians while acting as the driving force for global medical innovation.
In other words, Canada’s rigid state monopoly on health insurance works only because Canadians secretly have a private alternative: America’s market-based system.
The three key indicators to consider in evaluating a health-care system are universality, affordability, and quality. It’s often said that you can have two out of the three, but you cannot have all three. The Canadian model offers universality, affordability, and the illusion of quality. But an illusion is all it is: The more closely you look, the worse the quality of Canadian health care appears.
These issues are also common in the other socialist utopias of Europe.
Socialist healthcare will create a system in the US much like we see with the VA. The VA's low quality of care and outcomes is primarily driven by the exact negative forces Canada is facing.
1. Canada has the worst ER wait time of the world's 11 largest economies.
2. Canada also topped the list for having the highest proportion of patients with long delays to see specialists, with 56% waiting longer than four weeks, compared with the international average of 36%.
In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner.
3. Since they're less incentivized there, Canada has a shortage of healthcare providers.
4. Canada has much less modern hospitals than the US. The worst US hospital is likely more up-to-date on technology and efficient than the best Canadian hospital.
5. Canadians don't enjoy the personalized Dr-patient experience of their US neighbors.
6. Canadian healthcare innovation (R&D) barely exists.
7. Contrary to popular belief among Americans, health care is not entirely free for Canadians. Dental, ambulance and many other services as well as prescription medications must be paid for out of pocket or they're covered through a combination of public programs and private health insurance. About two-thirds of Canadians have such insurance.
8. Wealthy Canadians are visiting the US in increasing numbers to obtain state-of-the-art procedures AND to receive care for illnesses which are potentially life-threatening considering the long wait to see a specialist in Canada.
The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.
9. Canada has Gov panels set up to determine whether patients will receive a prescribed treatment/procedure. This is kind of a healthcare rationing.
Bureaucrats, not doctors, decide which procedures and treatments are covered under the CHA — based on data and statistics rather than on the needs of patients.
To address scarcity in the health-care system, government central planners ration care and cap the number of procedures offered in a given year, leading to queues, longer wait times, and a deterioration in the quality of care.
10. While medical providers are independent from the federal government, they are compelled to accept CHA insurance —and nothing else — by a prohibition on accepting payments outside the national-insurance scheme so long as they wish to continue accepting federal health-transfer funds. The spigot of money from Ottawa thus ensures a de facto government monopoly in the health-insurance market.
11. Canadians pay for health insurance through their taxes; most never see a medical bill. But that doesn’t mean the system is affordable. Au contraire, it relies almost entirely on current taxpayers to subsidize the disproportionately large health-care needs of elderly Canadians in their final few years of life. Rather than pre-funding the system to deal with the coming tsunami of aging Baby Boomers, Canada’s provincial governments pay and borrow as they go — and rank among the most indebted sub-sovereign borrowers in the world. According to Don Drummond, an economist appointed by Ontario’s Liberal government to help fix its finances, Canada’s largest province is projected to see health-care costs soar to the point where they will consume 80 percent of the entire provincial budget by 2030, up from 46 percent in 2010.
12. Canada’s quality of care is poor, and it continues to deteriorate in the face of a looming fiscal crunch and further rationing. In Canada’s single-payer system, citizens cannot pay directly for procedures, and they cannot purchase private insurance to cover services provided by the CHA. They must instead wait in line or seek health-care services outside the country.
13. Many Canadians — and many progressives abroad — like to think that health care is “free” in Canada, when in fact, Canadian taxpayers pay, on average, $10,500 per year for all their health-care needs. Canadians simply have no concept of how much the services they consume cost, since the CHA prohibits providers from ever showing patients a bill.
14. Canada’s single-payer system is made possible only by an accident of geography: It is propped up by the U.S. health-care industry next door, which provides a parallel private system for very sick and very rich Canadians while acting as the driving force for global medical innovation.
In other words, Canada’s rigid state monopoly on health insurance works only because Canadians secretly have a private alternative: America’s market-based system.
The three key indicators to consider in evaluating a health-care system are universality, affordability, and quality. It’s often said that you can have two out of the three, but you cannot have all three. The Canadian model offers universality, affordability, and the illusion of quality. But an illusion is all it is: The more closely you look, the worse the quality of Canadian health care appears.
These issues are also common in the other socialist utopias of Europe.
Socialist healthcare will create a system in the US much like we see with the VA. The VA's low quality of care and outcomes is primarily driven by the exact negative forces Canada is facing.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 1:55 pm to Eli Goldfinger
I know a guy that lives in Canada that tore up his knee and had to wait almost 5 months to get an MRI done.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 1:56 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Bamatool in 3.2.1....
Posted on 9/14/17 at 1:57 pm to Eli Goldfinger
"Progressive" "logic"; Republicans are evil, but we want government to have complete control of healthcare.
fricking retards. Every single one of them.
fricking retards. Every single one of them.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:02 pm to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
2. Canada also topped the list for having the highest proportion of patients with long delays to see specialists, with 56% waiting longer than four weeks, compared with the international average of 36%.
In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner.
I've told this story before, but in England, my uncle's best friend had his pulmonologist appointment delayed 4 different times, because he didn't report any new symptoms. He was just a tough old dude. Stiff upper lip.
Each appointment was set for 6 months later. Well, after 2 years he went from being diagnosed with emphysema (which was incorrect) to full blown stage 4 lung cancer. While he was in America, he went to an ER. The docs here told us, he would have seen a specialist immediately 2 years ago and could've saved his life easily.
frick SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!
When I had testicular cancer, I saw every specialist needed the same day as diagnosis. Diagnosed at 8 am surgery by 3:00 pm.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:06 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Hasn't the CBO scored this in the past as costing north of 2 trillion dollars?
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:07 pm to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
We only have to look to our neighbor to the north for a great example of what BernieCare looks like.
You misspelled "Veterans Administration system".
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:11 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Healthcare in Australia sucks, too. I'm glad I didn't have any major medical issues there. Also had to have supplemental health insurance to cover things that the government didn't cover in their universal healthcare paradise.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:12 pm to Eli Goldfinger
The people should care, but big government will make you out to be evil until they get what they want.
And the only thing they saw in your post that mattered was
When they control the supply and the cost they will test your faith in the second amendment through through gun related injury tax hikes, or rationing of other services. When your well being is no longer in your own hands (if you choose to make it so) you don't control anything.
And the only thing they saw in your post that mattered was
quote:
ensures a de facto government monopoly in the health-insurance market.
When they control the supply and the cost they will test your faith in the second amendment through through gun related injury tax hikes, or rationing of other services. When your well being is no longer in your own hands (if you choose to make it so) you don't control anything.
This post was edited on 9/14/17 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:26 pm to TheFonz
quote:
universal healthcare paradise.
That's the socialist propaganda
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:29 pm to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
universal healthcare paradise. That's the socialist propaganda
Then they should all move there and leave the rest of us to our own "demise".
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:30 pm to CoachChappy
quote:
frick SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!
Don't we have socialized medicine now? It's just paid for in a different way than traditional socialist means.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:31 pm to Eli Goldfinger
England put the little boy with "mitochondrial depletion syndrome" to sleep, americans with chronic fatigue syndrome better be glad they don't live over there!
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:34 pm to SG_Geaux
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/10/21 at 7:49 am
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:35 pm to Eli Goldfinger
No link? 99% of the time that means obsolete or total bullshite.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:38 pm to Eli Goldfinger
What do we want?
Health Care!
When do we want it?
Within 3-6 months!
Health Care!
When do we want it?
Within 3-6 months!
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:38 pm to TGFN57
quote:
No link? 99% of the time that means obsolete or total bull shite.
No link because most of it is in my head.
I have worked in healthcare analytics for 10+ years.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:44 pm to Eli Goldfinger
Why couldn't the government just allow anyone to have whatever insurance they want (and can afford). Anyone who cannot afford insurance or is too stupid to buy it if they can afford it should be covered by medicare. That is really no different than someone without insurance going to the ER and seeing a doctor. In that case the hospital passes the cost on to the other paying customers. If they were covered by medicare then it would be the taxpayers covering the bill. I don't like giving these stupid lazy bastards my tax dollars but if doing so means I can have the insurance I want then so be it.
I don't like what I pay to BCBS but I have good coverage and am willing to pay it. Leave it the frick alone.
I sure as hell don't want to have the government in charge of my heath care. With the excepting of the military there is nothing the government does that couldn't be done better by a private contractor. USPS, Amtrac, EPA, OSHA, FDA, DMV... they are all worthless.
I don't like what I pay to BCBS but I have good coverage and am willing to pay it. Leave it the frick alone.
I sure as hell don't want to have the government in charge of my heath care. With the excepting of the military there is nothing the government does that couldn't be done better by a private contractor. USPS, Amtrac, EPA, OSHA, FDA, DMV... they are all worthless.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:50 pm to alphaandomega
quote:
Why couldn't the government just allow anyone to have whatever insurance they want (and can afford). Anyone who cannot afford insurance or is too stupid to buy it if they can afford it should be covered by medicare.
I would like to see the gov set a up a network of hospitals and providers for those who need it...similar to the VA, but specifically for people on Medicaid. That way they could put all the regulation they want. This separation of haves & have-nots would drive prices down for the 75% of Americans who can afford privatized care, because our insurers wouldn't be forced to make us pay for the poors who refuse to/can't pay.
Posted on 9/14/17 at 2:54 pm to DEG
quote:Yes, at the VA.
Don't we have socialized medicine now?
The rest is regulated to the point of tremendous cost inefficiency, but it's not yet socialized.
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