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Started By
Message
We no longer have a voting system, we now operate with a ballot system
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:33 am
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:33 am
In a ballot system, you don't need a functioning candidate, you don't need debates, you hardly need to campaign at all.
But we are all told that this is "democracy".
Ballots vs. Votes
quote:
As the political discussion centers on the 2022 wins and losses from the midterm election, one thing that stands out in similarity to the 2020 general election is the difference between ballots and votes.
Insofar as electioneering is concerned, where votes were the focus, the Biden administration suffered losses. However, where ballots were the focus, the Biden administration won.
Since the advent of ballot centric focus through mail-in and collection drop-off processes, votes have become increasingly less valuable amid the organizers who wish to control election outcomes.
As a direct and specific result, ballot distribution, assembly, collection and return has become the key to Democrat party success.
The effort to attain votes for candidates is less important than the strategy of collecting ballots.
It should be emphasized; these are two distinctly different election systems. Ballots -vs- Votes
The system of ballot distribution and collection is far more susceptible to control than the traditional, now arcane, system of votes physically cast at precincts.
A *vote* cannot be cast by a person who is no longer alive, or no longer lives in the area. However, a *ballot* can be printed, distributed, completed and returned regardless of the status of the initially attributed and/or registered individual.
'Votes' and 'Ballots' are two distinctly different things.
Votes require people, difficult to manage and costly for electioneering. Ballots require systems, easier to manage and more cost effective.
While ballots and votes originate in two totally different processes, the end result of both “ballots” and “votes,” weighing on the presented election outcome, is identical.
The controversial 2020 election showed the result of making ‘ballots’ the strategy for electoral success.
Under the justification of COVID-19 mitigation, mail-in ballots took center stage. Ballot harvesting was one term for collection process but don't get hung up on it.
Now that ballot collection has been shown to be a much more effective way to maintain political power, Democrats in a general sense are less focused on winning votes and more focused on gathering ballots.
When ‘ballot organization’ becomes more important than ‘vote winning,’ you modify electioneering approaches accordingly.
It might sound simplistic, but inside the distinct difference between ballots and votes you will find why refusing debates is a successful strategy.
If you are trying to win votes you could never fathom campaign success by refusing to debate an opponent. However, if your focus is centered around ballot collection, the debate is essentially irrelevant.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:34 am to TrueTiger
I told y'all this in the middle of 2020.
But no, muh election day voting was going to steer Trump to victory!
Like with most things, the GOP has refused to adapt to a changing society and has been left behind.
But no, muh election day voting was going to steer Trump to victory!
Like with most things, the GOP has refused to adapt to a changing society and has been left behind.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:38 am to TrueTiger
YEP! The agenda and narrartive is all that matters for the DEMS.
Look who they voted for recently:
Biden
Harris
Fetterman
Hobbs?
Kori Bush
Waters
the list is too long.
Look who they voted for recently:
Biden
Harris
Fetterman
Hobbs?
Kori Bush
Waters
the list is too long.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the GOP has refused to adapt to a changing society and has been left behind.
I don't see the ballot system as being democratic, at all.
I don't see it at Constitutional. The Constitution uses the word "vote".
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:44 am to TrueTiger
How is it not Constitutional? Dems are taking advantage of people too lazy to vote by ballot harvesting.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:46 am to Gings5
Just sign and we will take care of it.
Why is this a partisan venture?
quote:This is a true statement.
Dems are taking advantage
Why is this a partisan venture?
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 7:48 am
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:47 am to TrueTiger
quote:
I don't see it at Constitutional. The Constitution uses the word "vote".
Well you're very wrong, there. The Constitution (and upcoming case law from USSC) is going to give almost exclusive authority to states to determine these issues. If the states are OK with it, then it's Constitutional (as long as it's not discriminatory and violates the VRA).
quote:
I don't see the ballot system as being democratic, at all.
Well, then you need to look at how democratic processes have been used historically.
This discussion gets into concepts too elevated for this board (free will, consciousness, active decision-making). You are effectively trying to argue that the place/time of a decision relating to voting changes the validity of that decision. Like "she can't consent because she's drunk", only "you can't vote because you're not in a voting booth on election day".
Having the ability to vote a straight ticket is less "democratic" than being able to fill out a ballot in your home, yet that's been pretty standard for years.
Having party affiliation on ballots as well.
People have been organizing groups of sycophants and dependents to vote for their candidates en masse since at least Rome.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:48 am to Gings5
I must be missing why, if ballot harvesting is such a panacea, the GOP doesn't do it too.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:49 am to TrueTiger
Then let’s start a ballot system. What’s stopping Rs?
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
since at least Rome.
quote:
on a snowball headed for hell.
Good thing they are re writing history.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:50 am to SlowFlowPro
You are correct but the reality that the candidate, their platform and ideas no longer matters is, to put it politely, disturbing. It shows how far removed we as a society have become disconnected from reason and rational thought. Groupthink and apathy rule the day.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:51 am to Eurocat
You don't see it.
The vote is not the same ballot.
The ballot is simply a means to record a vote. When your system is focused on ballots remotely cast rather than votes in person you can't be sure that you have the actual intent of an actual voter captured in that ballot.
That's not democratic.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:52 am to MintBerry Crunch
quote:
What’s stopping Rs?
The GOPe doesn’t want to win. They are on the take just like the dems and don’t want to be exposed. It’s all a huge Ponzi scheme extorting money from the working class into their pockets.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:52 am to themunch
quote:
Why is this a partisan venture?
They were smarter than Republicans and got organized more quickly in how to use the system.
Democrats need turnout to win. This provides an avenue to increase turnout. That's why they also favor early voting being 2 months long, no ID requirement, ways to cure ballots, etc.
Democrats offer lofty ideals like "democracy" to justify their partisan policy preferences.
Republicans need to suppress Democratic turnout, so they want election systems that decrease these things.
Republicans offer lofty ideals like "election integrity" to justify their partisan policy preferences.
And the world keeps going around and around.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:53 am to themunch
quote:
Good thing they are re writing history.
Rome wasn't a republic when it "went to hell", brother.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:53 am to Eurocat
One side has a set moral compass, the other are practice moral relativism. Hence why democracy is only suitable for a moral and just society.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:55 am to Bwmdx
quote:
Groupthink and apathy rule the day.
You think this is new?
quote:
There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.
quote:
It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:57 am to Eurocat
quote:Because we put our misguided faith that the court system would back us up that all this ballot harvesting was fraudulent and reject this blatant attack on democracy.
I must be missing why, if ballot harvesting is such a panacea, the GOP doesn't do it too.
But they did not.
Posted on 11/14/22 at 8:00 am to TDFreak
quote:
Because we put our misguided faith that the court system would back us up that all this ballot harvesting was fraudulent and reject this blatant attack on democracy.
So they didn't listen to smart people like me, made a terrible assumption, didn't win in court, and now are trying to turn it into some moral issue?
Could be the worst political miscalculation in some time. Perhaps centuries.
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