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We no longer have a voting system, we now operate with a ballot system

Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:33 am
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67889 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:33 am

In a ballot system, you don't need a functioning candidate, you don't need debates, you hardly need to campaign at all.

But we are all told that this is "democracy".


Ballots vs. Votes



quote:

As the political discussion centers on the 2022 wins and losses from the midterm election, one thing that stands out in similarity to the 2020 general election is the difference between ballots and votes.

Insofar as electioneering is concerned, where votes were the focus, the Biden administration suffered losses. However, where ballots were the focus, the Biden administration won.

Since the advent of ballot centric focus through mail-in and collection drop-off processes, votes have become increasingly less valuable amid the organizers who wish to control election outcomes.

As a direct and specific result, ballot distribution, assembly, collection and return has become the key to Democrat party success.

The effort to attain votes for candidates is less important than the strategy of collecting ballots.

It should be emphasized; these are two distinctly different election systems. Ballots -vs- Votes

The system of ballot distribution and collection is far more susceptible to control than the traditional, now arcane, system of votes physically cast at precincts.


A *vote* cannot be cast by a person who is no longer alive, or no longer lives in the area. However, a *ballot* can be printed, distributed, completed and returned regardless of the status of the initially attributed and/or registered individual.


'Votes' and 'Ballots' are two distinctly different things.

Votes require people, difficult to manage and costly for electioneering. Ballots require systems, easier to manage and more cost effective.


While ballots and votes originate in two totally different processes, the end result of both “ballots” and “votes,” weighing on the presented election outcome, is identical.

The controversial 2020 election showed the result of making ‘ballots’ the strategy for electoral success.

Under the justification of COVID-19 mitigation, mail-in ballots took center stage. Ballot harvesting was one term for collection process but don't get hung up on it.

Now that ballot collection has been shown to be a much more effective way to maintain political power, Democrats in a general sense are less focused on winning votes and more focused on gathering ballots.

When ‘ballot organization’ becomes more important than ‘vote winning,’ you modify electioneering approaches accordingly.

It might sound simplistic, but inside the distinct difference between ballots and votes you will find why refusing debates is a successful strategy.

If you are trying to win votes you could never fathom campaign success by refusing to debate an opponent. However, if your focus is centered around ballot collection, the debate is essentially irrelevant.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422433 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:34 am to
I told y'all this in the middle of 2020.

But no, muh election day voting was going to steer Trump to victory!

Like with most things, the GOP has refused to adapt to a changing society and has been left behind.
Posted by oldskule
Down South
Member since Mar 2016
15476 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:38 am to
YEP! The agenda and narrartive is all that matters for the DEMS.

Look who they voted for recently:
Biden
Harris
Fetterman
Hobbs?
Kori Bush
Waters
the list is too long.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67889 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:41 am to
quote:

the GOP has refused to adapt to a changing society and has been left behind.


I don't see the ballot system as being democratic, at all.

I don't see it at Constitutional. The Constitution uses the word "vote".
Posted by Eurocat
Member since Apr 2004
15047 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:43 am to
This is ridiculous.

The only thing that would have voting without ballots is a caucus system like Iowa.

Or an electronic voting system.

LINK

Which one of these do you prefer?
Posted by Gings5
HTX
Member since Jul 2016
7972 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:44 am to
How is it not Constitutional? Dems are taking advantage of people too lazy to vote by ballot harvesting.
Posted by themunch
Earth. maybe
Member since Jan 2007
64657 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:46 am to
Just sign and we will take care of it.

quote:

Dems are taking advantage
This is a true statement.

Why is this a partisan venture?
This post was edited on 11/14/22 at 7:48 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422433 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:47 am to
quote:

I don't see it at Constitutional. The Constitution uses the word "vote".

Well you're very wrong, there. The Constitution (and upcoming case law from USSC) is going to give almost exclusive authority to states to determine these issues. If the states are OK with it, then it's Constitutional (as long as it's not discriminatory and violates the VRA).

quote:

I don't see the ballot system as being democratic, at all.

Well, then you need to look at how democratic processes have been used historically.

This discussion gets into concepts too elevated for this board (free will, consciousness, active decision-making). You are effectively trying to argue that the place/time of a decision relating to voting changes the validity of that decision. Like "she can't consent because she's drunk", only "you can't vote because you're not in a voting booth on election day".

Having the ability to vote a straight ticket is less "democratic" than being able to fill out a ballot in your home, yet that's been pretty standard for years.

Having party affiliation on ballots as well.

People have been organizing groups of sycophants and dependents to vote for their candidates en masse since at least Rome.
Posted by Eurocat
Member since Apr 2004
15047 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:48 am to
I must be missing why, if ballot harvesting is such a panacea, the GOP doesn't do it too.

Posted by MintBerry Crunch
Member since Nov 2010
4846 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:49 am to
Then let’s start a ballot system. What’s stopping Rs?
Posted by themunch
Earth. maybe
Member since Jan 2007
64657 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:50 am to
quote:

since at least Rome.


quote:

on a snowball headed for hell.


Good thing they are re writing history.
Posted by Bwmdx
Member since Dec 2018
2757 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:50 am to
You are correct but the reality that the candidate, their platform and ideas no longer matters is, to put it politely, disturbing. It shows how far removed we as a society have become disconnected from reason and rational thought. Groupthink and apathy rule the day.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67889 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:51 am to

You don't see it.

The vote is not the same ballot.

The ballot is simply a means to record a vote. When your system is focused on ballots remotely cast rather than votes in person you can't be sure that you have the actual intent of an actual voter captured in that ballot.

That's not democratic.


Posted by Dawg7730
Member since Mar 2021
1827 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:52 am to
quote:

What’s stopping Rs?


The GOPe doesn’t want to win. They are on the take just like the dems and don’t want to be exposed. It’s all a huge Ponzi scheme extorting money from the working class into their pockets.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422433 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:52 am to
quote:

Why is this a partisan venture?

They were smarter than Republicans and got organized more quickly in how to use the system.

Democrats need turnout to win. This provides an avenue to increase turnout. That's why they also favor early voting being 2 months long, no ID requirement, ways to cure ballots, etc.

Democrats offer lofty ideals like "democracy" to justify their partisan policy preferences.

Republicans need to suppress Democratic turnout, so they want election systems that decrease these things.

Republicans offer lofty ideals like "election integrity" to justify their partisan policy preferences.

And the world keeps going around and around.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422433 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:53 am to
quote:

Good thing they are re writing history.

Rome wasn't a republic when it "went to hell", brother.
Posted by Bwmdx
Member since Dec 2018
2757 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:53 am to
One side has a set moral compass, the other are practice moral relativism. Hence why democracy is only suitable for a moral and just society.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422433 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:55 am to
quote:

Groupthink and apathy rule the day.

You think this is new?

quote:

There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.


quote:

It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.


Posted by TDFreak
Dodge Charger Aficionado
Member since Dec 2009
7369 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 7:57 am to
quote:

I must be missing why, if ballot harvesting is such a panacea, the GOP doesn't do it too.
Because we put our misguided faith that the court system would back us up that all this ballot harvesting was fraudulent and reject this blatant attack on democracy.

But they did not.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422433 posts
Posted on 11/14/22 at 8:00 am to
quote:

Because we put our misguided faith that the court system would back us up that all this ballot harvesting was fraudulent and reject this blatant attack on democracy.

So they didn't listen to smart people like me, made a terrible assumption, didn't win in court, and now are trying to turn it into some moral issue?

Could be the worst political miscalculation in some time. Perhaps centuries.
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