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re: War On Drugs: Let's get a better understanding/conclusion. Part 1: Supply Side
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:24 pm to MButterfly
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:24 pm to MButterfly
quote:
After fighting within that cartel. Then you simply take out the next one. In the meantime, operations are disrupted.
The people running these organizations aren't stupid. They can adapt to what we throw at them. I suppose you underestimate the Taliban as well.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:25 pm
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Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:24 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Has there been any lasting decline of usage rates since the beginning of the War on Drugs?
I don't think so. There seems to be periods of waxing and waning on what's more prevalent.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:24 pm to MButterfly
quote:
1- Time to address the production.
- Use trade as a negotiation with Mexico and others. Either we trade and you allow us to take out the production or we don't trade at all.
- Use other forms of negotiation. Restrict LEGAL immigration if they do not cooperate.
- Label all cartels terrorist organizations!
It allows the US military more leverage in the fight.
- Take out the leadership every month. It takes time to regain control of the Cartel. Just take them out.
- We know of a production center... blow it up.
There's so many fricking things wrong with this idea I'm not sure where to start: historically we have tried the military approach- in Colombia- it didn't do all that much other than shifting suppliers and destroying Colombian civil society. "Take them out"
Let's just focus on one major thing-- declaring cartels terrorist organizations- this would an absurd example of overreach- first we pass the Patriot Act which cedes to the state some pretty authoritarian powers in the name of fighting terrorism, then we declare drug trafficking organizations terrorist groups enabling the Government free reign- you don't see the massive slippery slope there?
edited: Oh, wait I forgot the best part- since you're declaring the cartels "terrorist organizations" you're effectively enabling Military action on US soil- this is the sort of thinking that leads in 5-10 years to rural Sheriff's departments having the ability to conduct drone strikes (before anyone thinks this is too absurd look at the migration of military vehicles, equipment and tactics to law enforcement over the past 15 years or so)
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:24 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Right now, I assume you are pro all drugs legalized, so this thread really doesn't apply to you.
So simply move on.
Sorry, this message board does't work that way.
There is no supply-side solution.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:26 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Has there been any lasting decline of usage rates since the beginning of the War on Drugs?
I don't think so.
Is that not the definition of failed policy?
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:27 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
s that not the definition of failed policy?
Depends on the alternative, I suppose.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:28 pm to MButterfly
MOAR PRISONS
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:29 pm to MButterfly
AG Sessions, shouldn't you have better things to do than post on the Rant? It's not even Football season.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:29 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Alright. You and I are done in this conversation. Already established in the OP that if you simply want all drugs legalized this is not a thread for you.
so move along....
You want to increase military presence on the border to a power of 5 and you're arguing with people that it won't cost much. What the frick are you smoking, Cheech?
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
The problem is that many central American countries are a so poor and the governments so corrupt that as long as there is a more lucrative industry such as drugs, they'll risk their lives to make money. You can launch as many drone strikes as you want, but it will only increase the value of the product thus luring people in to fill the void.
This. Hell, it's not like MButterfly's dream world would even up the risk factor the low level guys face anyway- if they're willing to fight the other cartels to make a living, I doubt the US Military scares them all that much- you risk death either way, at least we won't do it with a chainsaw and a barrel of acid.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:33 pm to MButterfly
quote:
See what I'm saying?
By your logic ending Prohibition was a huge mistake.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:33 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Yes. I would rather see them wither on the vine as we legalize drugs here in the states. The bulk of cartel revenue is through marijuana sales. It funds their hard drug operations. You legalize weed and they'll take a massive hit in revenue.
quote:
I'm not going through all of this. I asked you HOW anything I posted constituted a police state.
Ok. You want to militarize the border and launch airstikes and military raids into a sovereign country to kill as many cartel related people as possible and do it on a monthly basis. Just as we can't kill our way of Afghanistan, we can't kill our way out of the drug war. Police state may not be the perfect term for what you propose, but I don't know how to properly label a plan that calls for turning a border into a DMZ and raiding a country on a monthly basis.
I really hope this dude isn't a conservative because HOLY shite! MOAR GOVERNMENT MOAR MOAR MOAR!! Get people off of these hard, dangerous and addictive drugs and educate the youngsters as much as possible. Even than people will still use but it will probably go down thus demand going down and production slowing down. frick that though bomb Mexico build a wall with snipers on it and starve prisoners. Epic plan.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:34 pm to Haughton99
quote:
Haughton99
I know we disagree... but thanks for at least address the content.
quote:
- Use trade as a negotiation with Mexico and others. Either we trade and you allow us to take out the production or we don't trade at all.
Completely shutting trade down with Mexico would frick our economy to put it simply. Non-starter.
Ok.. Starting point would be to ??
Give me your better strategy for that. That being co=operation from Mexico.
quote:
quote:
- Label all cartels terrorist organizations!
It allows the US military more leverage in the fight.
- Take out the leadership every month. It takes time to regain control of the Cartel. Just take them out.
- We know of a production center... blow it up.
You want to send cruise missiles into Mexico to blow up drug production sites? Our military in to take our drug kingpins? You wan't international trade sanctions on the US. That's how you get them.
I need a little more information with that.
I want Cartel drug locations blown up.
quote:
quote:
- If you are in our Jails and you are a member of a gang, deport them NOW.
Say a illegal immigrant robs a store and shoots but doesn't kill the owner of the store. You wan't to pull that guy out of jail and send him to Mexico and turn him loose? You know that a wall won't prevent all illegal immigration right? That guy will return.
I addressed the returning. If you are shooting people, then you simply are in jail and hard labor.
quote:
I'm sure you don't care at all but it's been proven over and over that the recidivism rate is not lowered by making prisons more miserable for prisoners. We should focus on lowering recidivism more than on satisfying our desire to treat someone as poorly as possible because they committed a crime. We can keep sticking our heads in the sand on this issue and things will stay the same.
It's not really about making it as miserable for them as we can. It's about not driving up the cost for the comfort for these people. I'm not trying to rehabilitate them. I'm trying to keep the American people from paying for them.
quote:
quote:
BREAK UP THE MASSIVE SCHOOLS!
is not making me very optimistic
Are you suggesting that smaller schools are not easier to manage?
Help me understand why.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:34 pm to montanagator
quote:
Hell, it's not like MButterfly's dream world would even up the risk factor the low level guys face anyway- if they're willing to fight the other cartels to make a living, I doubt the US Military scares them all that much- you risk death either way, at least we won't do it with a chainsaw and a barrel of acid.
And they'll do just what they've done in the past - adapt and thrive.
We could spend trillions and trillions of dollars tackling the supply side of the drug war and maybe, if everything goes well, make a small, almost unnoticeable dent in the stream of drugs coming into the U.S.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:34 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Just exit the thread then
You started the thread, you don't get to order people around. You can choose to deal with the comments or not. Your ignorance on this subject is stunning.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:35 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Gangs just skinned teens in NYC... they are cartel related gangs.
Are you saying these people are peaceful entrepreneurs?
This is something where the Libertarians have a really good point- if legalization occurred that violence would rapidly dissipate and we have actual historical evidence for this not mere speculation-- remember the streets of Chicago were actually more dangerous during prohibition than they are today.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:36 pm to montanagator
quote:
This. Hell, it's not like MButterfly's dream world would even up the risk factor the low level guys face anyway- if they're willing to fight the other cartels to make a living, I doubt the US Military scares them all that much- you risk death either way, at least we won't do it with a chainsaw and a barrel of acid.
If the OP spent some time on the border he'd understand just how retarded his "plan" really is.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:37 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
All this shite, incentives cartels to bring more into the country since less supply in America will drive the cost up
??? It's their product that is not making it in. What?
Drive up cost? You mean poor people won't be able to afford the illegal drugs that plague their neighborhoods and cities?
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:38 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
I remember when we prohibited alcohol and treated it like a drug. There were even American cartels selling illegal booze underground with all of the violence that went along with it.
Chicago had a higher murder rate during prohibition than it does today.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:42 pm to montanagator
quote:
Chicago had a higher murder rate during prohibition than it does today.
Who do you see becoming the Miller-Coors of heroin manufacturing and distribution?
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