- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: War On Drugs: Let's get a better understanding/conclusion. Part 1: Supply Side
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:07 pm to Y.A. Tittle
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:07 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
As is trying to analogize alcohol prohibition with that of heroin, crack or crystal meth.
Not really. Sure, there is a higher percentage of deaths and serious health issues with the latter but in terms of comparable activities, all are prohibitions against possessing a noxious substance. All have utterly failed to reduce usage rates. And all have increased the rate of violent crime coinciding with the prohibition.
1
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:07 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
You're talking about two drastically different things. Drug use is a self-consent practice while murder is a violent act. Outside of a certain pathological individuals, people don't seek out violence on others. People do, however, seek out pleasurable experiences.
Gangs just skinned teens in NYC... they are cartel related gangs.
Are you saying these people are peaceful entrepreneurs?
quote:
The federal government has no authority under the Constitution to criminalize the use and possession of drugs outside of the possessor passing over state lines
I'm afraid they do....
quote:
From there, I would suggest that states decriminalize the possession and use of other narcotics and transfer resources into medical treatment and prevention.
Please stop trying to make this thread into the demand side. stay on topic.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:08 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Either we trade and you allow us to take out the production or we don't trade at all.
Don't you think this is already happening?
There has been programs to attacking Coco farmers for years. The problem is that is dirt cheap to produce compared to the end product.
quote:
- Build the wall. While in itself is not the end all, it is the major problem because it handles 2 issues. The transportation of the drugs, and the movement of troops into the US. I say Troops because of the terminology used "War on Drugs"
- Man the wall. We train soldiers every day. Rotate the National Guard of every state to that border wall. That's man power, training, and it changes out the people enough that it reduces the chances of being compromised by cartel dollars. We have 50 states with national guard and 48 of those could easily be rotated out.
- Use modern tech to patrol that wall. In other words, use small drones in a pattern that changes daily.
- Use modern Tech to detect tunnels before they are completed. It's out there., we can do it.
Those things alone will reduce the flow drastically!
- Cargo ships need to be inspected better. Use the method above to do that work.
All this shite, incentives cartels to bring more into the country since less supply in America will drive the cost up.
quote:
- Schools need to be guarded. Place NG on every corner! Each state has enough to do this.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:11 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
There were even American cartels selling illegal booze underground with all of the violence that went along with it.
Let's not forget all the folks killed or seriously hurt by imitation booze like bathtub gin
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:11 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
All have utterly failed to reduce usage rates.
How can you say this with regard to crack, heroin, and crystal meth?
My point is, there was never really a legal unfettered culture of acceptance of having those available for use to later be prohibited. Sure, you can argue there were some subcultures of cocaine and opioid use before the full-fledged "war on drugs", but it wasn't anywhere near as culturally ingrained as alcohol was when it was prohibited.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:12 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
- Label all cartels terrorist organizations!
It allows the US military more leverage in the fight.
So your belief is that the Cartels should be allowed to operate and not be policed?
quote:
- Take out the leadership every month. It takes time to regain control of the Cartel. Just take them out.
Again... This is not a police state item.
quote:
We know of a production center... blow it up.
Again.. not a police state.
I'm not going through all of this. I asked you HOW anything I posted constituted a police state.
Explain what a police state is and how these items fall within that.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:13 pm to Machine
quote:
legalize everything, tax the hell out of it
Works against itself and is not a supply side issue. Hang on to this for that thread.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:13 pm to Dire Wolf
2 points, one related to your post.
1)How many US soldiers are guarding Afghan poppy fields that produce opioids that kill Americans everyday. Serious Question.
2)This chart is usually used to measure harm associated with each drug. You can see where Tobacco and Alcohol fall in relation to other "harder" drugs.
1)How many US soldiers are guarding Afghan poppy fields that produce opioids that kill Americans everyday. Serious Question.
2)This chart is usually used to measure harm associated with each drug. You can see where Tobacco and Alcohol fall in relation to other "harder" drugs.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:14 pm to MButterfly
quote:
- Man the wall. We train soldiers every day. Rotate the National Guard of every state to that border wall. That's man power, training, and it changes out the people enough that it reduces the chances of being compromised by cartel dollars. We have 50 states with national guard and 48 of those could easily be rotated out.
Costs a lot of money
quote:
Use modern tech to patrol that wall. In other words, use small drones in a pattern that changes daily. - Use modern Tech to detect tunnels before they are completed. It's out there., we can do it. Those things alone will reduce the flow drastically! - Cargo ships need to be inspected better. Use the method above to do that work.
all this costs a shitton of money
quote:
1- Time to address the production. - Use trade as a negotiation with Mexico and others. Either we trade and you allow us to take out the production or we don't trade at all. - Use other forms of negotiation. Restrict LEGAL immigration if they do not cooperate. - Label all cartels terrorist organizations! It allows the US military more leverage in the fight. - Take out the leadership every month. It takes time to regain control of the Cartel. Just take them out. - We know of a production center... blow it up.
Have you lost your damn mind? Our allies would turn on us in a second if we did this. We are the biggest player on the world stage. We don't want to make this statement. Also this is pretty much war and war costs money
quote:
Label gangs as Terrorist organization and bring in federal help.
more money
quote:
Add 3000 more judges. Deport new arrests within days.
more money
quote:
Get rid of the PC that states we must make prison life for these people friendly. This means you don't get my tax dollars to EAT or live. You get to work for the rest of your life to raise your own food, cook it, and clean up.
You realize most prisons are privatized now we really don't have a say in this anymore and it would never fly with the American public. Because not everyone is in jail for the problem you are trying to fix.
quote:
Either die, or life with out my tax dollars
Wrongful convictions makes this so much fail. So someone is set up and found later to be not guilty screw them for being in the wrong place. oopsy price of doing business. You are mental
quote:
- Schools need to be guarded. Place NG on every corner! Each state has enough to do this.
NG is part time this costs money
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:15 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Gangs just skinned teens in NYC... they are cartel related gangs.
Are you saying these people are peaceful entrepreneurs?
This crime doesn't happen if these teens could legally purchase this substance from a licensed distributor. Black market economics leads to violence because there is no formal grievance system.
Situations like this cut directly against your supply-side argument.
quote:
I'm afraid they do....
Wickard is crap. It was bush-league legal reasoning due to the threat by FDR but I digress. Federal involvement in the drug war has lead to more use, more violence, and more deaths.
quote:
Please stop trying to make this thread into the demand side. stay on topic.
Supply side solutions are anything but. They are doomed to fail as they did with alcohol prohibition and as the have done in the past five decades in the War on Drugs. THEY HAVE NEVER WORKED AND THEY WILL NEVER WORK.
You may as well start a thread on the benefits of astrology on economic policy. It would be just as useful.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:16 pm to Foch
quote:
Do any of these proposals curb the American appetite for narcotics?
in the OP
quote:
Let's define the "war". It's supply and demand. In order to effectively combat it, You would have to address both sides.
All of these things are demand side.
Please remember these and bring it to the thread when we start
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:18 pm to upgrayedd
Alright. You and I are done in this conversation. Already established in the OP that if you simply want all drugs legalized this is not a thread for you.
so move along....
so move along....
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:18 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
My point is, there was never really a legal unfettered culture of acceptance of having those available for use to later be prohibited. Sure, you can argue there were some subcultures of cocaine and opioid use before the full-fledged "war on drugs", but it wasn't anywhere near as culturally ingrained as alcohol was when it was prohibited.
Has there been any lasting decline of usage rates since the beginning of the War on Drugs?
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:18 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
So basically extorting people with their own money.
Please oh please come to the Demand Thread after I post it!
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:20 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
nother will take his place. It's too lucrative to ignore.
After fighting within that cartel. Then you simply take out the next one. In the meantime, operations are disrupted.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:21 pm to upgrayedd
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:22 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Posted by Message
MButterfly
check out this podcast on this topic
quote:
When fighting the war on drugs, governments typically devote enormous resources trying to reduce the supply. But is this effective? Journalist and author Tom Wainwright of the Economist and author of Narconomics talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the ways that the drug cartels respond to government attempts to reduce the availability of drugs. Like any business trying to maintain profitability, cartels look for ways to cut costs and maintain or grow revenue. Wainwright uses extensive on-the-ground interviews and reporting to understand the behavior of the cartels and argues that reducing demand would be a much more effective strategy for reducing drug use.
quote:LINK
I was looking at the supply chain of cocaine. I went down to Bolivia, and I went to visit some of the terraces down there in the Andes where the coca leaf is grown. The coca leaf is the raw ingredient for cocaine, and all of the world's cocaine is grown down there in the Andes in either Bolivia, Colombia or Peru. So I went down there, and I read about all the incredible work that's being done down there to try to disrupt the cocaine supply line, and you'll have seen footage probably of airplanes and helicopters dumping tons of weed-killer on these Andean terraces in Colombia, for instance. They've done lots of work on this and they've done a fairly effective job at making it harder to grow coca leaf. They destroyed hundreds of thousands of hectares over the years, and it has made the lives of cartels more difficult on the surface, at least. And yet, I looked at the price of cocaine in the United States, and it has hardly budged. You can go back decades, and the prices remain roughly $100 per pure gram.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:22 pm to MButterfly
quote:
So your belief is that the Cartels should be allowed to operate and not be policed?
Yes. I would rather see them wither on the vine as we legalize drugs here in the states. The bulk of cartel revenue is through marijuana sales. It funds their hard drug operations. You legalize weed and they'll take a massive hit in revenue.
quote:
I'm not going through all of this. I asked you HOW anything I posted constituted a police state.
Ok. You want to militarize the border and launch airstikes and military raids into a sovereign country to kill as many cartel related people as possible and do it on a monthly basis. Just as we can't kill our way of Afghanistan, we can't kill our way out of the drug war. Police state may not be the perfect term for what you propose, but I don't know how to properly label a plan that calls for turning a border into a DMZ and raiding a country on a monthly basis.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:22 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
quote:
That's demand side, and I will show you that you are wrong!
quote:
Antonio Moss
Again.. show up in the demand side thread when I post it.
Right now, I assume you are pro all drugs legalized, so this thread really doesn't apply to you.
So simply move on.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:23 pm to MButterfly
Or we could just legalize it, grow our own, sell it in licensed stores that collect sales taxes, and let the tort system punish the producers of dangerous narcotics.
Page 3 of 7
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News