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Started By
Message
re: U.S.-born man held for ICE under Florida’s new anti-immigration law
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:05 pm to VOR
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:05 pm to VOR
quote:
It’s shameful and betrays the principles upon which our country was founded and the literal mandates of the Constitution.
Unless you want to call out Joe Biden and Alejandro Mayorkas, then there is no point in you trying to argue this. They failed at upholding the governments end of the constitution.
Plus, people get detained all the time in this country and aren’t found guilty of anything.
0
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:06 pm to MintBerry Crunch
I really feel sorry for this man. I truly do, but the problem was allowed to get so unmanageable that in order to gain control, certain guardrails had to be widened. Thankfully, it all worked out for him.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:09 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
American. We don’t need to get to a point where we must show police our papers like Nazi German
I can’t drive or fly within this country without an id and soon to be real id for flying.
I also can’t leave this country without proper papers.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:27 pm to dgnx6
quote:
I can’t drive or fly within this country without an id and soon to be real id for flying. I also can’t leave this country without proper papers.
Yes but you don’t have to present them upon request of a law enforcement officer for no crime.
You CHOOSE to fly or drive knowing you need ID.
Stupid comparison.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:32 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
Yes but you don’t have to present them upon request of a law enforcement officer for no crime. You CHOOSE to fly or drive knowing you need ID. Stupid comparison.
What? You need an id for a lot of shite. Are you trying to argue you can just choose not to participate in society? I guess that’s one way not to show papers.
You can choose not to enter the country illegally too.
But here we are.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:34 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
es but you don’t have to present them upon request of a law enforcement officer for no crime. You CHOOSE to fly or drive knowing you need ID. Stupid comparison.
Incorrect, you are being intellectually dishonest. If I get caught for speeding I have to provide my drivers license, registration of vehicle and proof of insurance. So no, not a stupid comparison
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:34 pm to MintBerry Crunch
I find it odd that the nonprofit “The Phoenix” is being considered a credible source
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:35 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
I don’t know the right answer but there’s a fine line that needs to be kept.
Until SCOTUS or Congress/the States say otherwise, people born here are citizens, and we have to live with that.
I get this was a mistake. As others have said, it is impossible to operate mistake-free in a country this size with an illegal immigration problem of the magnitude we have.
This post was edited on 4/18/25 at 9:36 pm
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:37 pm to VOR
man frick off....you people are seriously mentally ill....I'm not kidding either. This is how you get your jollies. We finally get someone to clean up all the BS your party has caused, and you people are fighting like hell to keep America down. It is sickening...as are you.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:38 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:
O assassinated an American citizen and some of his family on foreign soil.
We aren't opposing the decision to kill al-Awlaki, are we?
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:40 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Until SCOTUS or Congress/the States say otherwise, people born here are citizens, and we have to live with that.
We are talking about police forcing you to identify…what are you replying to?
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:40 pm to ImaObserver
quote:
Babies born to these foreigners may receive birth certificates but they are not citizens of the U.S.A. but rather of the nations of their parents
Not under current law, no. They are United States citizens if born on US soil.
Its bad law, and bad policy, but that IS the current state of things. No solution will ever involve retroactive revocation of citizenship either. Any SCOTUS ruling or Amendment/law removing birthright citizenship will be prospective only. The alternative isn't workable. There have been too many because we have let this go on too long.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:41 pm to CrotchetyCowboy
quote:
Incorrect, you are being intellectually dishonest. If I get caught for speeding I have to provide my drivers license, registration of vehicle and proof of insurance. So no, not a stupid comparison
It is a stupid comparison. You CHOOSE to drive and know you must have an ID drivers license to do so. You have no right to drive. You do have a right to live in your house and walk down the street without having an ID.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:42 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
We are talking about police forcing you to identify…what are you replying to?
Just the broader topic. Your post was the one I happened to hit reply to.
At some level, in this context where ICE is rounding people up and comes across people who don't speak English and spent most of their lives elsewhere, I don't really have a problem with forcing them to identify.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:43 pm to dgnx6
quote:
What? You need an id for a lot of shite. Are you trying to argue you can just choose not to participate in society? I guess that’s one way not to show papers.
You don’t need an ID to walk down the street, you commie. You don’t have to show your ID just because a cop walks up to you and demands it if you’re not suspected of a crime. We are free. If you CHOOSE to fly or drive, you need an ID. You don’t need an ID to exist.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:44 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
You do have a right to live in your house and walk down the street without having an ID.
If you are under the reasonable suspicion umbrella in an encounter with ICE, you can be compelled to produce proof of lawful presence/residence/citizenship.
It is not that bad of a comparison. The legal standard is the same as producing your drivers license in a traffic stop.
Someone of this person's age not speaking English being caught up in an ICE raid amongst known illegals certain falls into the reasonable suspicion bucket.
This post was edited on 4/18/25 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:47 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
You don’t need an ID to walk down the street, you commie. You don’t have to show your ID just because a cop walks up to you and demands it if you’re not suspected of a crime. We are free. If you CHOOSE to fly or drive, you need an ID. You don’t need an ID to exist.
Correct. You don't need an ID to exist. But you do need to identify yourself if law enforcement lawfully demands it. That extends to ICE in immigration status at enforcement points and in these sort of operations.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:48 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
But you do need to identify yourself if law enforcement lawfully demands it
According to the law, you only need to ID if you’re suspected of a crime. You don’t need to ID at ICE checkpoints. 4th amendment, baby. Yes, ICE tells you that you must, but you don’t.
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:51 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
According to the law, you only need to ID if you’re suspected of a crime.
Incorrect.
quote:
You don’t need to ID at ICE checkpoints.
ICE absolutely has the right to lawful ability to compel proof of lawful presence if you are reasonably suspected of not being in the country on a legal basis. Border and immigration enforcement operations are at the same standard as a traffic stop. If the cop pulls you over, you do in fact have to provide identification.
quote:
Yes, ICE tells you that you must, but you don’t.
Yes, you do. Provided they can meet the reasonable suspicion standard necessary to justify the stop/raid/operation/request for ID. In this case, that seems met.
It was still a mistake because the guy is a citizen, but it wasn't an egregious one.
This post was edited on 4/18/25 at 9:55 pm
Posted on 4/18/25 at 9:57 pm to MintBerry Crunch
quote:
“It was just really sad seeing the mother distraught over her son, and the fact that she acknowledged that this is very likely a case of racial profiling against a U.S. citizen who can’t speak English,” he said in a phone interview with the Phoenix.
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