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re: Ukrainians have now attacked a second critical Russian nuclear early warning radar.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:05 am to NC_Tigah
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:05 am to NC_Tigah
quote:No. The closest I got to the Donbas was Odessa, the Black Sea port city in the south of Ukraine. And I worked there for only one week.
Did you ever travel to the Donbas?
quote:It went a little further than that.
My understanding regarding the "co-national language" is it related mainly to contracts, laws, etc. As I understand it, Russian speakers from Yanukovych's home region had historically gotten screwed vis-a-vis Ukrainian language contracts, Ukrainian clauses they didn't fully understand, etc. Yanukovych wanted to change that.
The idea was if Yanky made Russian a "co" national language it meant that schools would have to go back to the Soviet days of teaching Russian language to everyone and that speaking Russian would become a requirement for government jobs like it was in Soviet days.
Ukrainians were sensitive to that after more than 70 years of their latest Russian subjugation.
Regarding your comment in the latter post on here:
quote:I sure hope I've never posted that. I certainly don't think Putin is dumb. The KGB did not recruit dumb children (and that's when they handpicked their agents, in childhood).
The only counters I forward in that regard are related to folks claiming the man is mentally incapacitated, dumb, or irrational.
But he is a ruthless, murdering, megalomaniac who has visions of being the new Peter the Great who creates a modern Greater Russia. He has literally ordered the murder of hundreds of dissidents, independent journalists and political opponents, some on them on foreign soil such as in Great Britain. He has no moral conscience. Nothing he says can be believed.
Remember in 2020 he repeatedly denied Russia had any plans to attack Ukraine and even 3 days before the attack began Putin announced the "training exercise" of the amassed forces on Ukraine's border was complete and the troops there would begin returning to their home bases. He was lying and the invasion began.
I remember that lie so well because the stock market rallied bigly the day he was quoted as saying the Russian troops had been ordered to return to their home bases. I knew he was lying so I sold some major stock positions in my Schwab account during the one-day rally. And I bought them back about a month later at a significant discount.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 9:11 am
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:30 am to LSURussian
quote:
But he is a ruthless, murdering, megalomaniac who has visions of being the new Peter the Great who creates a modern Greater Russia.
That seems more like an opinion coupled with feelings, that may blind you to actual facts. How can we possibly know if the above is true, or what Putin, himself, actually thinks.
Couldn't we accuse some of our own "leaders", like the Clintons, or Bush, (plural), for example, of being "murdering megalomaniacs"?
Would Peter the GREAT, be that bad of a role model, rhetorically speaking?
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:35 am to LookSquirrel
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:48 am to LookSquirrel
quote:Your goddamn right it is!
that seems more like an opinion coupled with feelings
quote:Nerve agents, poison and window falls: A list of Putin's critics that have been attacked or killed
actual facts
Here’s a list of all the Putin critics who wound up murdered
Former KGB agent Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko lies dying in his hospital bed at University College Hospital in London in 2006.
quote:Not even close to comparable. Talk about an "opinion coupled with feelings..."
Couldn't we accuse some of our own "leaders", like the Clintons, or Bush, (plural), for example, of being "murdering megalomaniacs"?
quote:Only if your role model is someone who watched his own son tortured to death in a prison cell in St. Petersburg. (I've stood in that prison cell where the torture and murder took place. It's now a museum.)
Would Peter the GREAT, be that bad of a role model, rhetorically speaking?
That's not my idea of a good "role model."
But if you're into that type of role model why not go all in and make St. Olga of Kiev your role model. All she did was order hundreds of her husband's (the Prince of Kiev) political opponents buried and burned alive.
And the Catholic Church later made her a SAINT!
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 10:14 am
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:08 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:Get back to me when any of those B-52s drop a bomb on Russia.
So we have B-52s flying to Russia's doorstep
quote:So Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov can't go a week without threatening the U.S. and our European allies with nuclear weapons but when the head of NATO replies to those threats, THAT is what upsets you?!? Seriously??
and now Stoltenberg ramping up the nuke talk.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:35 am to LSURussian
Calm down Russian. Your losing your rational debate participant title.
First, Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned by polonium, a rare radioactive substance. The main narrative blamed it all on Vladimir Putin of Russia. The rationale rested on little other than because Litvinenko was a Putin critic. This was the quick line in mass media, and it was on all the typical war propaganda channels.
Second, regarding Peter the Great, you ignored the "rhetorical"" qualifier. Wasn't meant to be "literal".
I stand by my Clinton and Bush, (plural), comments and yes, it is my opinion but I can back it up, if need be. Like the Alexander Litvinenko "assassination" narrative we were fed by our "information overlords".
Is there more to your back story that would prompt such emotion?
I tend to like you Russian so, please take no offense.
First, Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned by polonium, a rare radioactive substance. The main narrative blamed it all on Vladimir Putin of Russia. The rationale rested on little other than because Litvinenko was a Putin critic. This was the quick line in mass media, and it was on all the typical war propaganda channels.
Second, regarding Peter the Great, you ignored the "rhetorical"" qualifier. Wasn't meant to be "literal".
I stand by my Clinton and Bush, (plural), comments and yes, it is my opinion but I can back it up, if need be. Like the Alexander Litvinenko "assassination" narrative we were fed by our "information overlords".
Is there more to your back story that would prompt such emotion?
I tend to like you Russian so, please take no offense.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:44 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
o we have B-52s flying to Russia's doorstep
Explain to me what you think this means.
Should we post an article every time Russia does this to the US and allies, which has been occurring since 2012 or so?
quote:
and now Stoltenberg ramping up the nuke talk
The content of the article is more measured than you make it seem...
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:47 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Explain to me what you think this means.
Answers your question at the 3 minute mark.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:52 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Folks blaming this wholly on Russia, and excusing Western input, have not learned a thing.
You are guilty of this. Your views amount to complete appeasement and you continually deny the self-determination of all of the Eastern European allies who made great efforts to join the West.
Again, was the world any safer when the USSR had its own sphere of influence? What makes anyone think it would be safer if we retreated from Eastern Europe?
Posted on 6/18/24 at 10:55 am to LookSquirrel
I'm not watching that video. Your opinions are stupid, especially if you are comparing Russian extra-territorial actions to some stuff you saw on the internet about the Clintons or whatever. You aren't equipped for these discussions.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:00 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Your opinions are stupid,
Typical and predictive,
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:13 am to LookSquirrel
Brother, you typed this out unironically:
Do you understand how stupid you seem at the moment?
quote:
main narrative blamed it all on Vladimir Putin of Russia. The rationale rested on little other than because Litvinenko was a Putin critic
Do you understand how stupid you seem at the moment?
Posted on 6/18/24 at 11:29 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you understand how stupid you seem at the moment?
I'll let time be my judge, not you.
All lies will be revealed...
ETA; BUT, I might find your twisted and warped skills of logic and reasoning entertaining, IF you can make this make sense.
[quote]There are many things wrong with the "Putin did it" story. For one, there is no motive, even with Litvinenko being a critic of Russia, he was no threat whatsoever to Putin. The man worked with Chechen terrorists and the Israeli-Russian oligarchs. But assuming that there was a sufficient motive to kill him, think about this: Why would Russia use a very rare, very expensive, and easily traceable radioactive substance to kill him instead of some cheap poison or just shooting him? Why risk smuggling radioactive material into the UK which is an act of war?
So, go ahead.
Entertain me
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 11:51 am
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:10 pm to LookSquirrel
quote:I'm calm. The exclamation marks I included were meant to convey my surprise that you, a poster who usually makes informative, well-reasoned posts, would say he thinks Peter the Great is a good role model even if you claim you were just being rhetorical.
Calm down Russian.
quote:No offense taken...
I tend to like you Russian so, please take no offense.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:24 pm to LSURussian
All good! Might could have left that Peter the Great comment out of my reply.

Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:46 pm to LSURussian
Be careful Russian, you are getting the Putin excusers all riled up.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 12:51 pm to RiverCityTider
This is a really great thread. You all handle your facts well. I am learning things.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 1:56 pm to LookSquirrel
quote:
For one, there is no motive, even with Litvinenko being a critic of Russia
He was more than that. He was employed by MI6 to help them fight the Russian Mafia and he worked to sound the alarm against the ‘active measures’ campaign the Russians started running in the West after 2000. He was also a friend of Putin’s rival Boris Berezovsky.
The amount of information Litvinenko revealed was rather copious, implicating the former KGB and the FSB in all sorts of extra-territorial actions, some accusations more believable than others, but regardless, he wasn’t some silent critic.
In many ways, he represented the major issue between Russia and the west in that he was allowed to speak freely without consequence about Russian security state activities from afar. This reflects an older trend in Russia, which dates to the 1880’s, after the assassination of Alexander the II. In response, the Okhrana was created, and in 1883, they had a foreign bureau located in Paris, which spent considerable resources tracking infiltrating the many revolutionary groups in Western Europe during the fin de siecle, Indeed, the French considered them a distinct Russian police force, and many French and British agents worked for the Okhrana before The Great War.
Later, after the revolution in 1917 and the eventual victory of the Bolsheviks, you had those same secret police functions pursued by the OGPU and eventually the KGB.
Arguably, there is a strong tradition within the Russian security state that the only way to deal with any dissidents is through violent means. There’s a famous article (I think in the New Yorker) about Putin when he was in Paris in 1982, there to murder a dissident with testimony to Putin’s character and demeanor provided by his roommate at the time, who was not a member of the KGB. Extra-territorial actions and assassinations were not unusual for the KGB nor Putin.
quote:
But assuming that there was a sufficient motive to kill him, think about this: Why would Russia use a very rare, very expensive, and easily traceable radioactive substance to kill him instead of some cheap poison or just shooting him?
Firstly, polonium is not easily traceable. It emits less gamma radiation than other radioactive substances, allowing it to evade detection by a Geiger counter, and was only detected through chance. It was chosen specifically because it was believed it was not traceable, was deathly fatal to humans if ingested and only required small amounts. Furthermore, since that particular isotope of polonium requires neutron activation, which can only come from an active nuclear reactor or a nuclear weapon, which suggests direct state involvement.
Given that Litvinenko revealed that Putin had restarted a laboratory that specialized in developing poisons, I tend to think that the choice of a radioactive material that was thought to be untraceable would have been bitterly ironic and personal.
quote:
Why risk smuggling radioactive material into the UK which is an act of
Namely because they did not think it would be detected or that the investigation would be so detailed as it was. One of the accused suspects was later elected to the Duma, and was also later quoted as saying some very strong words about dissidents of the Russian state.
As for why the Russians were willing to risk major diplomatic fallout, that reasoning is more complex. Firstly, what I think underpinned at least some of their belief is that, at the time, they had the goodwill (mostly) of foreign governments. It was around this time that high-level government officials in the UK and US started feeling the ‘cold shoulder’ in Moscow, as they described relations before then were warm and cordial, with much more information shared between agencies than after. Secondly, there is the possible belief that an extra-territorial assassination would have a ‘chilling effect’ on other Russian dissidents, not dissimilar to the effect it would have on Soviet dissidents.
Lastly, shooting a dissident on foreign soil would have been much more difficult, as the meeting was arranged with Litvinenko through one of his friends, who just happened to be in town for a soccer game with his family. That sort of assassination would have brought far more scrutiny, because there isn’t even the potential to hide it. By the time Litvinenko finally met with investigators from Scotland Yard, 17 days had passed, which allowed time for the suspects to leave the country without having to invoke any diplomatic protection.
So ultimately, you seem to be asking why a security state would expend any energy on a former member of that state after they have left that apparatus and ultimately murder them on foreign soil. States which have extremely robust internal security services generally view the free speech you and I might find normal as grounds for treason, as they did in this case and as they did in the Jamal Khashoggi case. Secondly, these states always retain strong plausible deniability to avoid scrutiny. Thirdly, generally states will not war with each other over dissidents like this, but the accusation of such an assassination is extremely grave and usually requires direct and extraordinary proof, as was probably the case in the recent spat between Canada and India. In Litvinenko’s case, the circumstantial evidence points towards the suspects he met at the Millennium Hotel, and once the poison was known, their steps throughout London were traced, as the suspects were not careful about contaminating their surrounding area.
Maybe you are young or something or new to the world of geopolitics, but it is better to always be cynical about everything, as humans, even powerful ones, can be remarkably petty and are not always good judges of what is and what isn’t a threat. If you are used to hitting everything with a hammer, then everything is a nail. At the same time, when you do threat assessment for some event some time later, you might miss something. How many times have we heard that police had so and so suspect under surveillance but the suspect was not deemed a threat, etc.? Threat assessment is a difficult, time-intensive and imperfect task which requires a robust bureaucracy and most importantly, a free press which can query those documents and ask if the authorities made a critical mistake. When you don’t have a free press or a tradition of freedom of speech, who is there to check your own power?
I’m assuming you are asking this question about Litvinenko in good-faith. If I find your reply, if you reply at all, glib and unserious, I’ll say as such. Don’t disappointment.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 2:02 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Get back to me when any of those B-52s drop a bomb on Russia.
You will not be in my thoughts as we entered WWIII.
Posted on 6/18/24 at 2:13 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:That hurts my feelings...
You will not be in my thoughts as we entered WWIII.
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