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True or false, teacher walkout for pay raises is a non starter?
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:14 am
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:14 am
A non starter in terms of real results...because politicians come and go and the inner web of the Department of Education is so big, it drinks all the excess water that might be available for teacher pay raises.
I think the American people by majority support teachers and pay raises. Sadly, it seems this doesn't matter what the American people desire.
Maybe I am naive, but I see the government too big to make necessary cuts internally so teachers can have more pay. The department of education state to state is a massive enterprise...In NC we have almost 100,000 teachers. Just teachers state wide.
Non-elected positions and non educators who run the DOE, I call these people the deep state...lots of good paying jobs with benefits who don't teach. Not sure what they do, and they don't drive buses or clean bathrooms either... Have you ever been to your state's department of education headquarters? The one is NC Is like the twin towers. Floor after floor of people in cubicles...
Teachers are out protesting for more pay so "lawmakers will do something"
but I see the deep state (those in the twin towers running the DOE firmly in control with politicians coming and going...thus nothing is going to happen, nothing of substance.
how do you see it?
Raising taxes is seemingly the go to answer but this too is a none-starter.
It's hard to move a mountain that keeps growing in size
I think the American people by majority support teachers and pay raises. Sadly, it seems this doesn't matter what the American people desire.
Maybe I am naive, but I see the government too big to make necessary cuts internally so teachers can have more pay. The department of education state to state is a massive enterprise...In NC we have almost 100,000 teachers. Just teachers state wide.
Non-elected positions and non educators who run the DOE, I call these people the deep state...lots of good paying jobs with benefits who don't teach. Not sure what they do, and they don't drive buses or clean bathrooms either... Have you ever been to your state's department of education headquarters? The one is NC Is like the twin towers. Floor after floor of people in cubicles...
Teachers are out protesting for more pay so "lawmakers will do something"
but I see the deep state (those in the twin towers running the DOE firmly in control with politicians coming and going...thus nothing is going to happen, nothing of substance.
how do you see it?
Raising taxes is seemingly the go to answer but this too is a none-starter.
It's hard to move a mountain that keeps growing in size
This post was edited on 5/20/18 at 8:36 am
14
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:15 am to ApexTiger
Fire their asses.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:15 am to ApexTiger
Public sector unions are a non starter.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:16 am to ApexTiger
Between the conspiracy angle and not knowing the difference between none and non, it's hard to take you too seriously.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:18 am to MoneyShot
quote:
Between the conspiracy angle
there isn't a conspiracy angle in anything I wrote.
It's a culture that I am talking about
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:18 am to ApexTiger
Deep state? DOE? Twin towers? Inner web?
If you feel the need to march...march.
If you feel the need to march...march.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:19 am to goatmilker
quote:
If you feel the need to march...march.
I think marching is a complete waste of time.
Guess I didn't make my points clear
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:21 am to ApexTiger
You threw just a bit at the wall. And didn't one states teachers just strike and march and get a pay raise?
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:22 am to ApexTiger
Someone posted the numbers here a few weeks ago. We spend more than most countries on education but teachers make less.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:32 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Someone posted the numbers here a few weeks ago. We spend more than most countries on education but teachers make less.
exactly...
too big of an operation to have real change in terms of being more efficient so teachers can have more pay.
I don't know what the answer is, but I know as long as Teachers keep voting for Democrats (by large margin) getting good raises is never going to happen...
Teachers march in protest while voting for the party which believes large government is a necessary and good thing.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:35 am to ApexTiger
quote:
I don't know what the answer is, but I know as long as Teachers keep voting for Democrats (by large margin) getting good raises is never going to happen...
Republicans are great at missing opportunities.
If they were smart they would pass a bill reducing the DoE administrative staff by 25% and dedicate all of the savings to a tax credit for teachers. Then watch the Democrats oppose it.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:43 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Republicans are great at missing opportunities
no doubt, they lack backbone...no longer the part of smaller government
quote:.
If they were smart they would pass a bill reducing the DoE administrative staff by 25% and dedicate all of the savings to a tax credit for teachers. Then watch the Democrats oppose it.
I've always thought this should be the role of a good governor.
Can he or she not order 25% cuts or does this have to go thru state lawmakers?
I am sure it would be super unpopular move, but seems like it's way over due...in every state.
How many billions does the Federal Government feed to States just to pay the bills every year?
States should be funding their own education bills without Federal aid, right?
how do you see it?
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:44 am to ApexTiger
I don't know about a "deep state" issue, but I do believe it's an issue with priorities and principles. There are some people - and it's a large amount - who simply do not see the value of public education. They don't believe it betters the quality of communities. They do believe it indoctrinates students into certain ways of thinking. They do believe home life and quality of parenting overwhelmingly trumps the value of the classroom. They absolutely believe that the majority of taxes are extraneous and wasteful and a drain on their own bank accounts.
There's also the belief that teaching grade school subjects is one of the easiest jobs imaginable with too much time off.
So I disagree that the American people by majority support teachers and pay raises. In fact, I think a simple survey of a board like the OT would show that most conservatives might even think teachers are paid too much for the work they do and the value they bring to the community.
Therefore, politicians are under no real pressure to pay teachers more. Upper class communities can supplement their teachers' pay and rely on the prestige of their schools to insulate their kids from the realities of low-paid teachers. Middle to lower class communities just have to put up with it and hope their kids work hard enough and catch enough breaks to get into a college they probably can't afford.
There's also the belief that teaching grade school subjects is one of the easiest jobs imaginable with too much time off.
So I disagree that the American people by majority support teachers and pay raises. In fact, I think a simple survey of a board like the OT would show that most conservatives might even think teachers are paid too much for the work they do and the value they bring to the community.
Therefore, politicians are under no real pressure to pay teachers more. Upper class communities can supplement their teachers' pay and rely on the prestige of their schools to insulate their kids from the realities of low-paid teachers. Middle to lower class communities just have to put up with it and hope their kids work hard enough and catch enough breaks to get into a college they probably can't afford.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:49 am to StringedInstruments
quote:I don’t think they are paid too much.
In fact, I think a simple survey of a board like the OT would show that most conservatives might even think teachers are paid too much for the work they do and the value they bring to the community.
I think they are paid appropriately in regards to their value as a worker.
Any field that isn’t selective and has a yearly turnover rate of somewhere around 300,000 is not a selective field.
Selectivity and exclusivity warrant increased bargaining power and, nearly always, increased income.
Teaching offers no such thing. As a field, it is neither exclusive nor selective.
If increased pay is demanded, standards need to be greatly increased in connection.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:55 am to Scruffy
Public sector unions are an albatross. I see it first hand every single day.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:55 am to Scruffy
quote:
f increased pay is demanded, standards need to be greatly increased in connection
yeah but we have so many social/family issues entering the classroom teachers deal with, I don't know how much more we can expect from teachers...
too many things are in the way of actual teaching...
seems exhausting and overwhelming...of course this all depends on where you live
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:57 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
I don't know about a "deep state" issue,
It just means there is a culture, a culture of many people inside DOE who are very comfortable where they sit and will resist any notion their job isn't important.
This post was edited on 5/20/18 at 9:00 am
Posted on 5/20/18 at 8:59 am to Scruffy
quote:
I don’t think they are paid too much.
I think they are paid appropriately in regards to their value as a worker.
but, you agree they are important?
How do you base "I think they are paid appropriately to their value as a worker" ?
In other words, how do you scale "value" relative to fair pay?
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:00 am to ApexTiger
I’m not saying there are no issues that they are damning to teachers and their careers.
That is a whole different topic with an entirely different course of action.
Teachers, IMO, should not be the less educated (no, I am not calling all teachers uneducated).
As a field, I truly believe that they should be held to a standard on par with physicians.
In order to do that, pay and standards both need a significant increase.
A pathway to remove students who are hampering the learning of others in the classroom needs to be determined as well.
There is no easy answer here, but the idea that teachers deserve a pay raise simply because they are teachers is asinine considering that the claim that they are irreplaceable is completely false.
I don’t know how to fix it.
That is a whole different topic with an entirely different course of action.
Teachers, IMO, should not be the less educated (no, I am not calling all teachers uneducated).
As a field, I truly believe that they should be held to a standard on par with physicians.
In order to do that, pay and standards both need a significant increase.
A pathway to remove students who are hampering the learning of others in the classroom needs to be determined as well.
There is no easy answer here, but the idea that teachers deserve a pay raise simply because they are teachers is asinine considering that the claim that they are irreplaceable is completely false.
I don’t know how to fix it.
Posted on 5/20/18 at 9:01 am to ApexTiger
I say neither true nor false. I say that they are a case of Labor not recognizing when their industry is already dead.
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