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re: Things are about to get ugly In Virginia.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 1:52 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 8/12/17 at 1:52 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
There is less than a hair's difference between excuses for tearing down these monuments, and excuses for tearing down those of founding fathers such as Washington, Madison, and Jefferson.
So the question is, where does it stop?
Do you also consider there to be only a hairs difference between Thomas Jefferson and Benedict Arnold?
Tearing down statues in no way erases history. Statues are created to selectively memorialize their subjects, not to tell a detailed, unbiased retelling of historic events. They are often accompanied by text that romanticizes them of their deeds, sometimes to the point of being inaccurate. You go to books to learn about historical figures, not sculptures in the town square. Since statues are about how a community uses limited resources to remember a historical figure, it should be up to that community what statues are erected and whether or not a statue should stay or go. Charlottesville decided that this confederate statue and the name of the park is no longer a good representation of their city.
This post was edited on 8/12/17 at 1:53 pm
2
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:01 pm to arkyhawk
All I can say is that as a UVA grad, it pains me to see these losers on the lawn. The shouting of the N word, as you noted, proves all you need to know about what they really believe.
These people are disgraceful idiots.
These people are disgraceful idiots.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:02 pm to bonhoeffer45
I'm not disagreeing with you however you damn well know for some of us it's not just about the statues it's where does this end?
Give them the statues what's next?
Schools, mascots, state names, streets, buildings, etc it's never ending.
You can go ahead and disagree and say well we'll cross that bridge when it comes.
That is precisely why, speaking for myself and others, argue for taking down the statues because it's not going to stop at that.
Give them the statues what's next?
Schools, mascots, state names, streets, buildings, etc it's never ending.
You can go ahead and disagree and say well we'll cross that bridge when it comes.
That is precisely why, speaking for myself and others, argue for taking down the statues because it's not going to stop at that.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:12 pm to Magician2
quote:
I'm not disagreeing with you however you damn well know for some of us it's not just about the statues it's where does this end?
Give them the statues what's next?
Schools, mascots, state names, streets, buildings, etc it's never ending.
You can go ahead and disagree and say well we'll cross that bridge when it comes.
That is precisely why, speaking for myself and others, argue for taking down the statues because it's not going to stop at that.
What harm is being wrought on society by a city voting to change the name of a school from Robert E. Lee to, say, Ronald Reagan or John F. Kennedy high school? Or just going to a complete non historical name like Mountain Vista or some shite?
The libraries they will house inside will still contain books about the Civil War and all those historical figures. Museums will still be operated on those streets that allow people to walk through the metaphorical halls of history.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:14 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
What harm is being wrought on society by a city voting to change the name of a school from Robert E. Lee to, say, Ronald Reagan or John F. Kennedy high school? Or just going to a complete non historical name like Mountain Vista or some shite?
What physical harm is wrought on society for not changing them?
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:15 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Since statues are about how a community uses limited resources to remember a historical figure, it should be up to that community what statues are erected and whether or not a statue should stay or go. Charlottesville decided that this confederate statue and the name of the park is no longer a good representation of their city.
There was a vote on this issue in Charlottesville?
This post was edited on 8/12/17 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:21 pm to BeeFense5
quote:
What physical harm is wrought on society for not changing them?
Well the argument from the advocates of removal was that they serve as a shrine for white supremacists, and that limited resources that can be used for memorialization can be better aligned with the current values of the community.
To which it would seem the white supremacists that have amassed a torch lit pilgrimage to these monuments are proving their thesis correct.
Ironically in doing so, and in such a blatant display of hate and racism, are likely to only hasten the removal of perceived symbols such as this in places like Charlottesville.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:30 pm to bonhoeffer45
Did you know the most diverse school in the entire city of Houston is Rober E Lee high school. 75% of its student population is from foreign countries (mostly third world) and they don't speak English. Yet the school principle and administrators are not advocating to remove the school name... weird huh? It is what it is. You don't have to openly celebrate Lee and confederate generals but removing their names and statues or anything historical is not going to help anything.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:40 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
There was a vote on this issue in Charlottesville?
Elected representatives of the city council voted to remove and sell the statue and rename the park.
The other irony in this is there is a good chance the courts will not allow it in this case. Which means the attention seeking torch lit white supremacist vigil will only serve to strengthen the arguments for removal elsewhere. Showing their arse here so publicly, over a statue that has a high probability of not going anywhere, likely only serves to weaken the credibility of any opposition in future disputes. But I'm sure Jason Kessler and Richard Spencer largely give a shite since it at least furthers their personal brand.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:48 pm to Magician2
quote:
Did you know the most diverse school in the entire city of Houston is Rober E Lee high school. 75% of its student population is from foreign countries (mostly third world) and they don't speak English. Yet the school principle and administrators are not advocating to remove the school name... weird huh? It is what it is. You don't have to openly celebrate Lee and confederate generals but removing their names and statues or anything historical is not going to help anything.
You mean this Robert E. Lee school?
LINK
Something tells me all those things you just said about the school didn't change by simply changing the name of the school.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:53 pm to MetArl15
quote:
The shouting of the N word,
I think anyone who says that word is trashy. I dont care if you are white, black or brown, that word is trashy.
Kinda like people who use profanity in public especially in front of women, old people or children.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:58 pm to MButterfly
quote:Well, now we've seen
You need to wake up and see what you are going to create.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 2:59 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:is there something you have to say?
DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:01 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
is there something you have to say?
I already did. Your comparison is hilarious.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:09 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:You find slavery hilarious?
I already did. Your comparison is hilarious.
How so?
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:15 pm to NC_Tigah
I find historical negationism hilarious.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:41 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:As I'm about as far from a negationist as is possible, what was your point?
I find historical negationism hilarious.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:43 pm to MButterfly
Yep, just some god fearing kids respecting history:
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:44 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
As I'm about as far from a negationist as is possible
Not with statements like this:
quote:
There is less than a hair's difference between excuses for tearing down these monuments, and excuses for tearing down those of founding fathers such as Washington, Madison, and Jefferson.
Posted on 8/12/17 at 3:45 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
You mean this Robert E. Lee school? LINK Something tells me all those things you just said about the school didn't change by simply changing the name of the school.
You got me my man. Had no idea this happened.
I still don't understand it what this ends up doing overall. You can't reshape and ignore history. I still stand by that statues are just one piece they want to fall. Heck some universities are already calling for the removal of building names and mascots.
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