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re: There are clear signs of ethnic cleansing by Israel in Gaza, Doctors Without Borders says.

Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:36 pm to
Posted by UncleLogger
Freetown
Member since Jan 2008
3095 posts
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:36 pm to
quote:

fundamental issue in the talks: Hamas is looking for a hostage deal that permanently ends the war triggered by its October 7 onslaught, while Israel is only willing to agree to a temporary ceasefire, as it aims to finish dismantling the terror group


They’re clearly not concerned about the hostages.

quote:

Within this context, the Israeli government has refrained from making serious moves to release the 120+ Israeli hostages that remain in Gaza.1 To date, seven hostages out of some 250 taken on October 7 have been released by military operations.2 The military operation that released two of them in February also killed 74 Gazans (or about 100), mostly civilians.3 Another military operation that freed four hostages in June also killed 274 Gazans, many of which were women and children, and wounded hundreds.4 Three other Israeli hostages were killed by IDF forces within Gaza despite waving white flags and calling for help.5 Another was killed during an attempted rescue operation.6 Three others were supposedly killed by gas that the IDF flooded the tunnels with.7 In late February an Israeli report found that at least 10 hostages were killed by the IDF’s actions, including a case where the IDF bombed a building that it suspected had a Israeli hostage.8 In late March a senior journalist specializing in military intelligence shared an estimate that only 60-70 of the hostages are still alive.9 US intelligence assessments seem to suggest a similar number.10 The number appears to have decreased as of late May.11 On the other hand, a temporary ceasefire has resulted in the release of 105 hostages.12 Instead of negotiating additional hostage releases, the Israeli government prefers to continue its military operation, despite the obvious risk to the hostages.


quote:

There is additional evidence that families of the hostages fear that if they speak up too loudly their family members might be pushed to the end of the list of hostages to be released.15 In mid-March, the chief of staff of the IDF unit responsible for the hostages resigned as he felt that Israel’s political leadership was not interested in moving towards a deal.16 Similar feelings have been expressed within Israel’s security apparatus.9 Several government members scorned the hostages’ family members.17 In late March some of the family members of the hostages publicly blamed Israel’s Prime Minister for continuously postponing a deal to release them.18 In mid-April, two members of Israel negotiations team, at least one of whom was involved in it for six months, said explicitly that the government and especially Israel’s prime minister are trying to delay and even prevent a deal to release the hostages.19 A former spokesperson for the families of the hostages agreed that Israel’s Prime Minister was preventing a deal for personal political reasons.20 Several domestic and foreign sources – including from Qatar – said similar things.21 In May, coalition MPs ramped up their explicit attacks against the families of hostages,22 while police and government supporters used violence against them in the streets.23 In late May, an aide to the Israeli Prime Minister said that Israel will not end the war for a deal to free all hostages, and verbally attacked family members of the hostages who visited him.24


LINK
Posted by Lightning
Texas
Member since May 2014
3118 posts
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:52 pm to
quote:

The poster I responded to suggested that all Hamas has to do is turn over the hostages “and it will all stop”


Nope. The poster you were responding to actually said:

quote:

All Hamas has to do is turn any remaining hostages loose and surrender and it will all stop.


You know that because you quoted it, but again you left that part off your receipt.

The article you posted says that Netanyahu is not going to agree to a ceasefire in order to get the hostages back. He wants the hostages back AND he wants Hamas eradicated. Is that actually an attainable goal? I don’t know that it is, but I see why he wants that. If Hamas gives back all the remaining hostages (the majority of which I would agree with you are dead at this point) but doesn’t surrender, and Netanyahu ends the war, this same fight will flare up again. Maybe a few small Hamas attacks in Israel in a year or two, maybe another October 7 type attack in five or ten years. Is complete eradication a reasonable possibility though? Honestly probably not; even if you did kill every Hamas member or get them to surrender, the ideology would just pop up under a different name.

quote:

Use your brain


Don’t be a dick because you’re pissy that you purposely left out the “and surrender” part of the OP and I called you out on it.
Posted by IamNotaRobot
OKC
Member since Nov 2021
1587 posts
Posted on 12/20/24 at 11:56 pm to
Cleansing the world of terrorism. Green light
Posted by Gusoline
Jacksonville, NC
Member since Dec 2013
10502 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 4:30 am to
More or fewer signs than that of planned parenthood trying to keep the black populace in check?
Posted by Jrv2damac
KS (mountain time)
Member since Mar 2004
72253 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 5:06 am to
quote:

People in this thread cheering on genocide are fricking disgusting.


If only you were also in the fray.

Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10545 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 8:53 am to
quote:


I always bring receipts


You brought half a receipt.

There were two conditions in what I said. Your post only addressed one of them.
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
53556 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 10:13 am to
First off - commentators should stop using the word "Genocide" in such a broad application of meaning. If it is "Ethnic Cleansing" that they think they see, call it that. If it's indiscriminate killing of both enemy combatants and non-combatants alike, call it that.

I always like to say that the USA should establish a team of observers on the battlefield and in Israel's military operations centers so that US policy on warmaking can be enforced.

The problem is that the enemy has carefully designed his military operations to thwart such efforts and thus make it impossible to wage war against them without killing a bunch of innocent people that the enemy likes to use as human shields.

I'm not on the ground there. I can't learn all of the facts. However, I would like Israel and the USA military forces to use the same rules of waging war. If Israel COULD follow the rules but intentionally breaks the rules, the USA should try to compel them to do things the right way. But, I fully realize that my best case scenario may not be possible.
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66663 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 10:18 am to
Good post. It seems like Israel is just making it uninhabitable. A slow choke out. I don't even have a problem if you think it's justified, FAFO, whatever. But, now you have ICC and a large portion of the medical community calling it what it is. Seymour Hersh said this a few days ago.
quote:

I should make clear that in my talks with the Israeli there are no immediate plans to improve the day-to-day ability to sustain life in Gaza. Israeli Air Force attacks still occur amid a lack of housing, food, and proper sanitation for the 2.25 million Gazan survivors of the 14-month Israeli response (which has killed at least 45,000 Gazans, including 31,500 women and children) to the Hamas attacks that killed 815 Israelis citizens and nearly four hundreds Israeli soldiers and security officials among 1,200 deaths.

One complicating issue involves the future of north Gaza, the area closest to Israel’s main population centers and within range of many missiles, whose hundreds of thousands of residents have been driven to the south by the IDF in order to turn the north into a fire-free zone. As of today, the Israeli told me, “Israel is destroying every single structure in the land” while there is a heated political fight inside Israel with the religious right insisting that the north be open to Israeli settlers. “Meanwhile,” the Israeli added, “The Israeli leadership is under pressure from the Saudis not to turn over the north to the whackos.” The future of the north remains unsettled, the Israeli said, and the Saudis, who at this point remain committed to the rebuilding of north Gaza, have reminded all parties that it will take five to seven years to complete the reconstruction of the zone and therefore have asked, “What’s the rush?” to decide its fate.
Posted by boomtown143
Member since May 2019
9407 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 10:20 am to
quote:

Doctors Without Borders


Definitely NOT a CIA front!
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72185 posts
Posted on 12/21/24 at 10:27 am to
quote:

There are clear signs of ethnic cleansing by Israel in Gaza, Doctors Without Borders says.


No one wants to say it out loud, but we all know this is the only way this war ends. They can’t live peacefully side by side so one side has to eradicate the other for there to be peace. Not saying it’s right or I support it. But we all know that’s the only way this thing ends.
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