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Started By
Message
2
Posted on 10/5/23 at 8:36 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
How do you not understand that that is precisely the point?
THAT'S THE POINT.
Abandoning principles puts you in a position to support anything any which way the wind blows.
Do you even know what populism is?
quote:
You probably think all socialists support gun control...
Why would I think that? What foundational principle of socialism would that violate?
You're so close. So, so close.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 8:49 am to VOR
quote:
The MAGA populist politicians invented non-existent or exaggerated crises to rile up
ordinarily reasonable people.
Endless unnecessary wars are non-existent or exaggerated crises?
Democrats mutilating children is non-existent or exaggerated crises?
Wide open borders and invading hordes of illegal aliens is non-existent or exaggerated crises?
Years and years and years of Politicians raping the American taxpayer is non-existent or exaggerated crises?
You live in a fantasy world....
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Did you see the speaker vote? 96% of the GOP was not with Gaetz, and Gaetz lost over half his support from January.
Sure, but look at who the base is with. Fox News and Levin can whine and wail all they want, but I expect more MAGA candidates to win primaries in the coming years, not less, and Trump is going to be the nominee. The “conservative movement”, defined broadly as the William F Buckley/Ronald Reagan sort is losing control. Trump in 2016 was merely the first sign of this. It’s going to continue.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You mean when the US became the world's lone superpower and richest nation on earth by a wide margin? I wonder why it became popular.
It became popular because we were in the process of normalizing relations with China and the Soviet Union fell, and economists and businessmen were seeing emerging markets all over the place. They forgot (or ignored) that the American government’s responsibility was to its own people, and that its own people would want a stable life so you can raise a family
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:12 am to MAADFACTS
quote:
The populist right feels that free trade is just as disruptive as the populist left (although we are more likely to emphasize the way it’s led to the breakdown in family and community) and want to end free trade and put protective tariffs on imports and rebuild American manufacturing.
They want the government to pick and choose winning industries based on some bizarre sense of economic "fairness".
No thanks.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:12 am to Jake88
quote:
By putting them in his cabinet?
You think he will make that mistake again? You dumb
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:17 am to VOR
quote:
Wow. So, there’s a binary choice?
Yeah genius. I guess you can vote 3rd party, but essentially you have 2 options, Trump and Democrat.
This is not rocket science.
quote:
If you’re not a MAGA disciple, you’re
a communist? Ridiculousness.
Since there are 2 choices and you hate maga, just vote for the groomers.
Let me simplify:
Trump or groomer.
Im sorry you dont like that these are the options, but welcome to reality.
If you vote "against trump" by voting for groomers, what does that make you?
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:19 am to Flats
quote:
They want the government to pick and choose winning industries based on some bizarre sense of economic "fairness".
Exactly. Its no different than progressive populism where they want the government to re-divide up tghe pie so they get a larger share.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:21 am to Flats
quote:
They want the government to pick and choose winning industries based on some bizarre sense of economic "fairness".
I mean Trump’s current plan is for a protective ring of tariffs, so it’s not exactly picking and choosing, and to the extent that he did pick and choose during his first term, he chose to reward his own voters and base. Fairness didn’t enter into it. Which is just recognizing that power is real and that it is good to be on the side of power and not under it
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:22 am to MAADFACTS
I think some of you libertarians are having a hard time recognizing that most people don’t view the market as sacred and just want to win at it
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:23 am to MAADFACTS
quote:
and to the extent that he did pick and choose during his first term, he chose to reward his own voters and base. Fairness didn’t enter into it.
What are you talking about? Rewarding his own voters and base?
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:30 am to frogtown
quote:And it is reasonably accurate. There is a LOT of overlap between those two ideologies.quote:Limited government conservatives are "anti-statist libertarians". That description ... is from ... Hoppe
and limited government (often called "fiscal") conservatives. The two categories are largely self-explanatory.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:31 am to Antoninus
Yes, we know how you pretend to value limited government.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:32 am to frogtown
quote:
What are you talking about? Rewarding his own voters and base?
His chief tariffs were intended to stifle solar panels to reward the coal miners who voted for him in Western Pennsylvania. His other big tariffs were on Mexican goods and designed to irritate the Mexican government until they took action against immigrants. “Fairness” wasn’t part of the calculation.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:34 am to aubie101
quote:The original Neocons were basically the wing of FDR's supporters who remained hawkish on national defense issues, and they moved en masse to the GOP in the 1960s as the Dems got weak/dovish on foreign policy.quote:Neoconservatives aren’t conservative
As did neoconservativism!
This post was edited on 10/5/23 at 11:11 am
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:37 am to Antoninus
quote:
The original Neocons were basically the wing of FDR's supporters who remained hawkish on national defense issues, and they moved en masse to the GOP in the 1960s as the Dems got weak on foreign policy.
It was also following Krushchev’s apology for Stalinism and the revelation that communism wasn’t working. The neocons simply traded the idealism of wanting global socialism for the idealism of wanting global democracy. The neocons too are revolutionaries and not proper conservatives, although it’s telling the establishment is willing to work with them and not MAGA republicans
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:41 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:The broader "conservative" coalition has a number of distinct components, and in many cases there is little overlap between/among them other than being slightly-more aligned with one another than with the Dems. e.g. the Social Conservatives, the Neocons, the Right Libertarians, and the Limited Government (Fiscal) Conservatives.quote:Neoconservatives certainly don’t support the principles of limited government.
Neoconservatives aren’t conservative
You are absolutely correct in asserting that (for the most part) the Neocons are not "Limited Government" conservatives. They simply (in broad terms) see other "conservatives" as being closer to their views than the Dems.
The Neocons are actually the group within the "Conservative" coalition that is closest to the Dems ideologically, so they are naturally the group most-likely to peel-off to the Dems, just as they peeled-off from the Dems 60 years ago.
If the GOP lets that happen and loses the Neocons, they will never win another election, because they simply cannot lose any member of the tenuous coalition.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:45 am to Bass Tiger
Make way because the salt must flow.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:45 am to westerntigerfan
quote:Conservatism, Libertarianism, and even Liberalism each have a unifying set of (largely) consistent ideological principles.
Populism and conservativism are not the same thing. In fact, they are at odds with each other. You can't be a populist and a conservative at the same time. Conservatism is a political philosophy based on principles, mostly limiting principles, that guides how you live and the policies you support.
Populism isn't based on principles at all.
Populism is any hodgepodge of policies that will garner enough votes.
This post was edited on 10/5/23 at 10:28 am
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