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Started By
Message
re: The move of Jesus in and amongst Islam is truly a thing to behold these days
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:05 am to 3down10
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:05 am to 3down10
quote:If you are being honest about this, then you are finally being consistent. The Jesus of the Bible died to forgive sins, not to merely be an example.
I already don't fear death. And your version of Jesus is terrible. If you are correct, I 100% denounce Jesus and the Christian religion. You're just a death cult who worships human sacrifice.
Happy now? I will no longer say good things about Jesus. You have convinced me he was nothing but a delusional man.
Repent of your hatred for the one, true God before it is too late. You cannot do enough good works to make up for the sins you’ve committed against a perfect, holy, and eternal God. One sin deserves everlasting judgment. Only God, Himself, could obey the law perfectly and provide an infinite righteous to sinners like you and me that we need. Your good works are useless to make up for an infinite debt that you owe to God. That is why you need a righteousness that is not your own.
Believe in Jesus before it is too late.
quote:That would be stupid if it were true. Repenting (turning away from) sin is part of trusting in Jesus by faith. If someone claims to believe in Jesus and goes on murdering and raping, then that proves they are not really trusting in Christ at all. Faith is a gift, and the same God who gives the gift of faith gives the gift of repentance and obedience, and these go hand in hand. True faith (and forgiveness that comes through it) is proven by good works.
Funny how he's able to atone for all sin, except not believing in some dude who lived 2000 years ago and claimed to be God. I can rape kids, murder them after and it's OK in Christianity as long as I believe in your false idol. Meanwhile, you would tell those who do everything right and it doesn't matter unless they worship the human sacrifice.
Yeah, it's fricking stupid.
So no, if someone claims to believe in Jesus but goes on to live a life contrary to that profession of faith, he has no good reason to believe he is actually forgiven of his sins.
This post was edited on 12/31/25 at 11:12 am
1
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:09 am to FooManChoo
quote:
If you are being honest about this, then you are finally being consistent. The Jesus of the Bible died to forgive sins, not to merely be an example.
Repent of your hatred for the one, true God before it is too late. You cannot do enough good works to make up for the sins you’ve committed against a perfect, holy, and eternal God. One sin deserves everlasting judgment. Only God, Himself, could obey the law perfectly and provide an infinite righteous to sinners like you and me that we need. Your good works are useless to make up for an infinite debt that you owe to God. That is why you need a righteousness that is not your own.
Believe in Jesus before it is too late.
Funny how he's able to atone for all sin, except not believing in some dude who lived 2000 years ago and claimed to be God. I can rape kids, murder them after and it's OK in Christianity as long as I believe in your false idol. Meanwhile, you would tell those who do everything right and it doesn't matter unless they worship the human sacrifice.
Everyone else - fricked.
Your version of God isn't even worth the worship. I refuse to believe God is a piece of shite as you do.
This post was edited on 12/31/25 at 11:11 am
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:09 am to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
I ain’t reading all that shite, Foo.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:25 am to 3down10
quote:It isn’t that He isn’t powerful enough to forgive unbelief. It is that belief is the condition to receive forgiveness. If you reject the only means of salvation, why do you complain about the condition? You have a choice right now to believe and be forgiven.
Funny how he's able to atone for all sin, except not believing in some dude who lived 2000 years ago and claimed to be God.
And He isn’t “some dude”. He is God. Faith in a random person won’t do anything. Only the God-man fulfilled the terms of the law and took the punishment we deserve.
quote:That isn’t true. Christians are commanded to love God through thankful obedience to the law after we are saved from our sins. That means we are no longer to break the 6th and 7th commandments (or any of them). If we sin, we have forgiveness, but only if we are sincerely repenting for sin and turning to Christ by faith. Someone who lives a life of sin without care proves he is not trusting in Christ and is therefore not to expect forgiveness.
I can rape kids, murder them after and it's OK in Christianity as long as I believe in your false idol.
quote:Those who reject Christ’s sacrifice for sin are not doing everything right. God sent His son to die for sins so that we could be forgiven and you trample His blood under your feet and then claim you are doing everything right? No, you aren’t.
Meanwhile, you would tell those who do everything right and it doesn't matter unless they worship the human sacrifice.
quote:No one innocent. All have sinned against God. That’s why the good news of salvation has gone throughout the earth and continues to do so, even right now. You have forgiveness and eternal life offered to you right now. Take it. Believe that Jesus laid the sin-debt you owe and you will be forgiven.
Everyone else - fricked.
quote:God is perfect and holy, which is why He cannot tolerate sin as you do. His justice won’t allow sin to go unpunished. Either your sins will be punished in you for eternity in Hell, or they were punished in Jesus Christ on the cross.
Your version of God isn't even worth the worship. I refuse to believe God is a piece of shite as you do
God is not evil for hating sin as you seem to think. He would be evil for tolerating it. Repent and believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:27 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:I take the time to read every response you give me, no matter how wrong and deluded I think you are.
I ain’t reading all that shite, Foo.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:52 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I take the time to read every response you give me, no matter how wrong and deluded I think you are.
If you can’t admit “take nothing except a staff alone”, and “do not take a staff” are saying the opposite about the staff specifically, then it shows you’re a troll, or a liar, or you don’t actually give a shite about what the text actually states, or all three, and we can’t even have the first semblance of common ground. I think we’re done here.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 11:54 am to FooManChoo
quote:
It isn’t that He isn’t powerful enough to forgive unbelief. It is that belief is the condition to receive forgiveness. If you reject the only means of salvation, why do you complain about the condition? You have a choice right now to believe and be forgiven.
And He isn’t “some dude”. He is God. Faith in a random person won’t do anything. Only the God-man fulfilled the terms of the law and took the punishment we deserve.
No, according to you he's a piece of shite who will save a rapist and murderer before he will save someone who lead a good life for the sole purpose that they don't believe in your idol.
quote:
That isn’t true. Christians are commanded to love God through thankful obedience to the law after we are saved from our sins. That means we are no longer to break the 6th and 7th commandments (or any of them). If we sin, we have forgiveness, but only if we are sincerely repenting for sin and turning to Christ by faith. Someone who lives a life of sin without care proves he is not trusting in Christ and is therefore not to expect forgiveness.
So it's ok if I rape and murder people as long as I feel bad about it after. Got it.
But if things are exactly the same but I believe in human sacrifice due to the fear mongering of shitty people like you, I go to hell.
quote:
Those who reject Christ’s sacrifice for sin are not doing everything right. God sent His son to die for sins so that we could be forgiven and you trample His blood under your feet and then claim you are doing everything right? No, you aren’t.
Which commandment are they breaking by not believing in Jesus?
quote:
No one innocent. All have sinned against God. That’s why the good news of salvation has gone throughout the earth and continues to do so, even right now. You have forgiveness and eternal life offered to you right now. Take it. Believe that Jesus laid the sin-debt you owe and you will be forgiven.
No thanks, I'm not interested in following a piece of shite God.
quote:
God is perfect and holy, which is why He cannot tolerate sin as you do. His justice won’t allow sin to go unpunished. Either your sins will be punished in you for eternity in Hell, or they were punished in Jesus Christ on the cross.
God is not evil for hating sin as you seem to think. He would be evil for tolerating it. Repent and believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins.
Your God is a piece of shite who creates people who are condemned to hell and he knows it when he is doing it. That means he is a cruel and unjust God and doesn't deserve worship at all.
This post was edited on 12/31/25 at 11:56 am
Posted on 12/31/25 at 1:11 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:I've been over this before. If you don't like the TR's use of the plural "staffs", then that's not really a problem. The verb for "take" is used by the authors differently. I posted a link in a recent response to you that gets into it, but the gist is that the way the word is used in Greek allows for the same meaning to flow across each of the gospel narratives. Jesus is telling the disciples to not get anything they are lacking, but due to haste, they should go now, taking only what they have on them, and to trust in the Lord's provision rather than taking what they think they'll need for the journey.
If you can’t admit “take nothing except a staff alone”, and “do not take a staff” are saying the opposite about the staff specifically, then it shows you’re a troll, or a liar, or you don’t actually give a shite about what the text actually states, or all three, and we can’t even have the first semblance of common ground. I think we’re done here.
And back to the prior discussion about contradictions: it's only a contradiction if there is no possible way to reconcile the apparent differences. There is a way to reconcile the language used, so there is no contradiction.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 1:44 pm to 3down10
quote:The problem you have, which is common to all works-oriented people, is that you think works actually merit something before God. You think that good works outweigh bad works, and that we all have our own little scales associated with our lives that we need to balance out (or at least have more good works than bad) before we die to be accepted before God. That's why you look at a murderer and think they are incapable of salvation, and you look at someone like yourself who hasn't murdered anyone and think that you're in pretty good shape by comparison.
No, according to you he's a piece of shite who will save a rapist and murderer before he will save someone who lead a good life for the sole purpose that they don't believe in your idol.
God doesn't grade on a scale, though. The problem you don't see is that NO ONE is worthy of eternal life with God, because the standard He has set is absolute moral perfection according to His law. He is a perfect God and requires perfect obedience to the law. You're looking at this wrongly: you compare one person to another (a murderer vs. a non-murderer) and judge that one is better or more deserving than the other. The fact of the matter is that you need to compare yourself and everyone else to the perfect moral righteousness of God. When you do that, you see that you and the murderer are almost identical in terms of your distance from God, because neither of you measure up.
Everyone sins, and every sin deserves eternal condemnation due to the holiness and moral perfection of the infinite God you sin again. Therefore, you cannot say that God is wrong to condemn or forgive one person over another based on faith in Christ, because all are deserving of God's wrath, and no one deserves His mercy (or else it wouldn't be mercy at all, but us receiving what God owes us).
Therefore if everyone equally deserves eternal judgement--the murderer and non-murderer alike--then God can save who He wishes, and pardon sin in the sinner by accepting payment from His perfect and righteous Son, who received the Father's wrath against sin on our behalf.
Another thing to consider is hope. Even if you were to commit a terrible sin like murder, there is still hope for you. No one is too far gone.
quote:No, it's not OK to rape and murder as long as you feel bad about it. Those are still heinous sins. However, if there is hope for someone who does truly feel sorrow for their sins and look to the mercy of God through Jesus Christ.
So it's ok if I rape and murder people as long as I feel bad about it after. Got it.
But if things are exactly the same but I believe in human sacrifice due to the fear mongering of shitty people like you, I go to hell.
You're also misapply fear here. The fear is not a misplaced fear in something that will only happen if you don't listen to me. The fear is that you are already condemned, right now, and on the way to eternal judgement. The only hope you have is to turn away from your sinful ways and put your trust in Jesus Christ to forgive you for your sins and to grant you His own righteous status before God the Father.
You seem to act as if you're perfectly fine and good right now, but you aren't. You are driving down a one-way street to eternal judgement because of your sins, and I'm telling you to stop the car and turn around before you drive off into the abys. It's not fear mongering. It's warning you of your own eminent destruction before it is too late for you.
quote:God says if you break one, you've broken them all, but more specifically, to not believe in Jesus is one ore more of the first 3 commandments. You are denying Christ as God (1st commandment), rejecting the true worship of Him as God (2nd commandment), and more particularly, that you are denying His commands and promises of eternal life by not trusting in Him, which is a violation of the 3rd commandment.
Which commandment are they breaking by not believing in Jesus?
quote:You are the sinner, and you are undeserving of His mercy, and yet He offers mercy to you in spite of your imperfections and disobedience.
No thanks, I'm not interested in following a piece of shite God.
quote:God owes no person anything. He can create and destroy as He sees fit and He's not cruel to do so. He causes no one to sin, but He offers salvation through forgiveness of sins to sinners who spit in His face, like you're doing right now. In spite of your wicked rejection of the holy creator of the universe, He still offers forgiveness to you.
Your God is a piece of shite who creates people who are condemned to hell and he knows it when he is doing it. That means he is a cruel and unjust God and doesn't deserve worship at all.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 2:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Another thing to consider is hope. Even if you were to commit a terrible sin like murder, there is still hope for you. No one is too far gone.
Except for all the people who have no idea who Jesus is of course. And all the people who lived before Jesus.
You've never even met God.
quote:
No, it's not OK to rape and murder as long as you feel bad about it. Those are still heinous sins. However, if there is hope for someone who does truly feel sorrow for their sins and look to the mercy of God through Jesus Christ.
You're also misapply fear here. The fear is not a misplaced fear in something that will only happen if you don't listen to me. The fear is that you are already condemned, right now, and on the way to eternal judgement. The only hope you have is to turn away from your sinful ways and put your trust in Jesus Christ to forgive you for your sins and to grant you His own righteous status before God the Father.
You seem to act as if you're perfectly fine and good right now, but you aren't. You are driving down a one-way street to eternal judgement because of your sins, and I'm telling you to stop the car and turn around before you drive off into the abys. It's not fear mongering. It's warning you of your own eminent destruction before it is too late for you.
The only people telling me I'm going to hell are people like you. And it doesn't matter what I do I'm going to hell. Unless of course I believe for some reason God's only way to communicate is through a collection of books decided by men and that some dude 2000 years ago and that the truth must be killed for me to live.
quote:
God says if you break one, you've broken them all, but more specifically, to not believe in Jesus is one ore more of the first 3 commandments. You are denying Christ as God (1st commandment), rejecting the true worship of Him as God (2nd commandment), and more particularly, that you are denying His commands and promises of eternal life by not trusting in Him, which is a violation of the 3rd commandment.
No he doesn't. You don't even know God.
Besides, I guess he really made it impossible for anyone else to not go to hell since suddenly believing in people they've never met or heard of is now a requirement.
I wonder if there are any other people I've never heard of, met or had a conversation with that I must accept is God, least I go to hell.
quote:
You are the sinner, and you are undeserving of His mercy, and yet He offers mercy to you in spite of your imperfections and disobedience.
But hey, lucky me for having lived in a current culture huh?
All those other people God just fricking hates.
What you offer me is the lie of whipping boy. If the truth must die in order for me to live, then I'd rather be dead. I have no interest in your world.
quote:
God owes no person anything. He can create and destroy as He sees fit and He's not cruel to do so. He causes no one to sin, but He offers salvation through forgiveness of sins to sinners who spit in His face, like you're doing right now. In spite of your wicked rejection of the holy creator of the universe, He still offers forgiveness to you.
Except most people in history have no idea who the frick Jesus is. And even then, you tell me God can only communicate via a book from 2000+ years ago.
And Jesus even lied to the rich man. Had a chance to save the guy, told him to frick off. He had to sell all his shite, you just get to believe Jesus died for your sins, and that God is such a generous man to fulfill his own laws this way on your behalf.
So again, he must hate all the people who are born outside your culture and time. Condemned to hell from birth with no other meaning to their lives.
Nothing but shitty arse dogma.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 6:45 pm to 3down10
quote:The message of salvation was to the Jews initially, and the Messiah came through them. They currently reject Christ, but those who the promise was given could receive salvation.
Except for all the people who have no idea who Jesus is of course. And all the people who lived before Jesus.
The gospel message is for everyone now that Christ has accomplished salvation. You are reading it right now and you are not embracing it as you ought. No one deserves pardon for their guilt, but here it is, for you.
quote:It depends what you mean by that. I have the Holy Spirit residing inside of me right now. I have been saved by Him, and He speaks to me through His Word while I speak to Him in prayer.
You've never even met God
quote:No one who knows the truth and does not warn you against Hell is being loving to you. If I hated you, I wouldn't warn you of what is to come and call you to turn from your sins and embrace Jesus Christ.
The only people telling me I'm going to hell are people like you. And it doesn't matter what I do I'm going to hell. Unless of course I believe for some reason God's only way to communicate is through a collection of books decided by men and that some dude 2000 years ago and that the truth must be killed for me to live.
Every message of salvation is exclusive, so I don't think you have a problem with the exclusivity of the gospel. I think you have a problem with being told that salvation is outside of your ability, and that you must rely on someone else. Jesus died so that you may live. No amount of your own works can save you.
quote:Yes He does, and I do know the one who made me and saved me.
No he doesn't. You don't even know God.
quote:You claim to have met God. You think your experience has revealed truth to you. How should anyone believe you or the God whom you met if they haven't met you or Him, themselves, as you claim to have done?
Besides, I guess he really made it impossible for anyone else to not go to hell since suddenly believing in people they've never met or heard of is now a requirement.
God has revealed the truth to mankind and even preserved that message for us. Whether that message came audibly or was written down, it's still God's Word, and the truth remains the same.
quote:No. Jesus is the way, truth, and life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him. There is no other name under Heaven by which you can be saved.
I wonder if there are any other people I've never heard of, met or had a conversation with that I must accept is God, least I go to hell.
quote:Yes, you are blessed to have the message proclaimed to you. You have salvation within your grasp, and yet you reject it. Why do you complain about those who haven't heard it if you have, and reject it anyway? If God provided this message to everyone who has ever lived, what difference would that make to you, if you reject it?
But hey, lucky me for having lived in a current culture huh?
All those other people God just fricking hates.
What you offer me is the lie of whipping boy. If the truth must die in order for me to live, then I'd rather be dead. I have no interest in your world.
You have no interest in the truth. It has been proclaimed to you and you continue to reject it. You do not want to suffer for eternity, but you don't seem to realize the gravity of the situation you are in Trust in the Truth, Jesus Christ.
quote:He has chosen to communicate through the preaching of the good news of salvation, which is found in the historical record of the Bible. If you know the message it proclaims, you don't technically need the Bible, only the message. You are rejecting both.
Except most people in history have no idea who the frick Jesus is. And even then, you tell me God can only communicate via a book from 2000+ years ago.
quote:Jesus didn't lie. He told the rich man to follow Him, and he didn't do it. That's what He commands of all of us. Stop trusting in your idols and good works that cannot save you, and follow Jesus. If Jesus was merely an example of good works as you think, He would not have told the rich man to follow Him. He would have said to sell all he has and keep doing all the good works he was already doing. Following Jesus isn't a good work that you think everyone ought to do, but that's what Jesus commanded. Follow Jesus by faith, not try to save yourself by your works.
And Jesus even lied to the rich man. Had a chance to save the guy, told him to frick off. He had to sell all his shite, you just get to believe Jesus died for your sins, and that God is such a generous man to fulfill his own laws this way on your behalf.
quote:God has a general love for everyone. He makes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust alike. He gives good things to all people, including life. We were all created to worship God, and yet we do not do it. We don't obey, but we follow our own selfish hearts and desires. We reject our creator and make idols to worship, and we deserve eternal Hell for it. God didn't have to save anyone, but He offers salvation to everyone who receives the message of Jesus Christ.
So again, he must hate all the people who are born outside your culture and time. Condemned to hell from birth with no other meaning to their lives.
quote:It's the only way to salvation. Your dogma is to do good works to save yourself.
Nothing but shitty arse dogma.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 8:36 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The message of salvation was to the Jews initially, and the Messiah came through them. They currently reject Christ, but those who the promise was given could receive salvation.
The gospel message is for everyone now that Christ has accomplished salvation. You are reading it right now and you are not embracing it as you ought. No one deserves pardon for their guilt, but here it is, for you.
So again, frick everyone else. Born into sin and unless your culture has Jesus, you're fricked. You have a terrible God.
quote:
It depends what you mean by that. I have the Holy Spirit residing inside of me right now. I have been saved by Him, and He speaks to me through His Word while I speak to Him in prayer.
[/quote
It means you've never met God. You don't know the "holy spirit" either.
You have a collection of books written by various men that you've accepted as the authority because you were told to. However, you don't really follow it.
[quote]No one who knows the truth and does not warn you against Hell is being loving to you. If I hated you, I wouldn't warn you of what is to come and call you to turn from your sins and embrace Jesus Christ.
Every message of salvation is exclusive, so I don't think you have a problem with the exclusivity of the gospel. I think you have a problem with being told that salvation is outside of your ability, and that you must rely on someone else. Jesus died so that you may live. No amount of your own works can save you.
I know the truth. I know how creation works and how free will is possible and much more. I've barely scratched the surface.
You don't have a problem with billions of people being destined to hell? And God knows when he created them it was going to happen? He can die for you, but frick everyone else? And not because you are somehow better or for any other reason than they needed to know who Jesus was and to be from a culture that accepts him?
Lucky you huh? God loves you, hates everyone else.
I never said anything about works saving you, that's your shite.
quote:
Yes He does, and I do know the one who made me and saved me.
No, you have a book. Again, you've never met God.
quote:
You claim to have met God. You think your experience has revealed truth to you. How should anyone believe you or the God whom you met if they haven't met you or Him, themselves, as you claim to have done?
God has revealed the truth to mankind and even preserved that message for us. Whether that message came audibly or was written down, it's still God's Word, and the truth remains the same.
You shouldn't believe me. I'm not your savior, your prophet or any such things. I'm not trying to gain followers, have influence over you or anyone else. There is only one true teacher and it's not me, I can't give understanding.
I'm not a salesman, you are.
When you say mankind what you really mean is to a select group of people in time, while condemning all others. So no, he didn't reveal the truth to mankind, nor did he preserve the message for you. Men did that because it gave them authority. But you don't really understand the real sorcery and spells of this world.
quote:
No. Jesus is the way, truth, and life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him. There is no other name under Heaven by which you can be saved.
That's not what you believe. You believe Jesus sacrificed his life so that you can live in sin and still be saved.
Because it's impossible that it really means - if you seek the way the truth and the life you can come to the father, that you will then know the father because the father will be in you, and that he will teach you all things. Of which would be available to people of all cultures and time periods rather than God condemning the majority of people with no chance at being saved.
quote:
Yes, you are blessed to have the message proclaimed to you. You have salvation within your grasp, and yet you reject it. Why do you complain about those who haven't heard it if you have, and reject it anyway? If God provided this message to everyone who has ever lived, what difference would that make to you, if you reject it?
You have no interest in the truth. It has been proclaimed to you and you continue to reject it. You do not want to suffer for eternity, but you don't seem to realize the gravity of the situation you are in Trust in the Truth, Jesus Christ.
It wouldn't be the same message if it was a message to everyone who ever lived. You are the one who claims that only by human sacrifice in a certain culture can people be saved. If that is what Jesus meant, then he's a false prophet. I know what he meant and I knew it before I heard his words.
Your message is of a God who isn't worth worshiping. Why don't you care about all the people who are condemned to hell with no chance of redemption? I mean if they just choose poorly that would be one thing, but in reality these people are/were never given the chance to start with.
Is your God just a poor planner? This weird ritual of human sacrifice was the best he could come up with to save humans? What even is the purpose of life on Earth if the only lesson to take away is - believe in Jesus? Just so we have a place to come and sin, with the added risk of going to hell if you don't believe the right thing?
quote:
He has chosen to communicate through the preaching of the good news of salvation, which is found in the historical record of the Bible. If you know the message it proclaims, you don't technically need the Bible, only the message. You are rejecting both.
No, you claim to speak for God because of a book you were given. Your historical record was selected. There were plenty of other gospels and writings from the time that were rejected because they didn't agree with Paul's teachings. Different people had different beliefs. You are not a follower of Jesus you are a follower of Paul.
I did not receive a message, I was given understanding. I am not of this universe/creation. It's impossible for me to reject it. It's also why it's impossible for me to accept what you claim.
quote:
Jesus didn't lie. He told the rich man to follow Him, and he didn't do it. That's what He commands of all of us. Stop trusting in your idols and good works that cannot save you, and follow Jesus. If Jesus was merely an example of good works as you think, He would not have told the rich man to follow Him. He would have said to sell all he has and keep doing all the good works he was already doing. Following Jesus isn't a good work that you think everyone ought to do, but that's what Jesus commanded. Follow Jesus by faith, not try to save yourself by your works.
You don't follow him, you worship the cross and his death. If you went back in time, you'd be asking about when he was going to be crucified so you could stand by and cheer as he died for your sins and saved you.
He could have told the rich man to just wait for his death and he would be able to keep his stuff and be saved.
Posted on 12/31/25 at 8:36 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
God has a general love for everyone. He makes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust alike. He gives good things to all people, including life. We were all created to worship God, and yet we do not do it. We don't obey, but we follow our own selfish hearts and desires. We reject our creator and make idols to worship, and we deserve eternal Hell for it. God didn't have to save anyone, but He offers salvation to everyone who receives the message of Jesus Christ.
Well that's not what you believe at all. You believe God only loves those who have access to Jesus over the past 2000 years of humanity.
So God made all humans to worship him, yet created people so that it was impossible for them to do so properly. And since he failed to create them properly, he will instead condemn them to live in hell for eternity. But then in his great wisdom, he gave a certain group a human sacrifice and if they believe this human sacrifice is God, then he will pardon them.
And this system is the best idea your God could come up with and it's because he loves everyone.
What you believe is absurd.
quote:
It's the only way to salvation. Your dogma is to do good works to save yourself.
If the truth must die in order for me to live, then I would rather not live.
I never said anything about "good works".
Posted on 1/1/26 at 3:28 am to 3down10
quote:Nobody who goes to Hell is innocent. A terrible God would be an unjust God, and that's what you seem to be advocating for.
So again, frick everyone else. Born into sin and unless your culture has Jesus, you're fricked. You have a terrible God.
quote:You condemn God for being free to do as He pleases. You confine God so that you can have your own freedom. Seems like you are trying to make man more important than God.
I know the truth. I know how creation works and how free will is possible and much more. I've barely scratched the surface.
quote:I don't have a problem with people getting what they deserve. I deserve the same fate. It's only God's mercy that prevents me from getting what I deserve. God is merciful, which is why more people don't suffer, getting what they want, which is absence from God's merciful presence.
You don't have a problem with billions of people being destined to hell? And God knows when he created them it was going to happen? He can die for you, but frick everyone else? And not because you are somehow better or for any other reason than they needed to know who Jesus was and to be from a culture that accepts him?
quote:No, God loves everyone, but has a special love for His chosen people. It's that general love that allows even good things to be enjoyed by the wicked in this life.
Lucky you huh? God loves you, hates everyone else.
quote:Didn't you say that in your encounter with "God", that you were given all knowledge regarding keeping the law, and how Jesus resonated with you because you believed He taught that you had to keep the law to be saved?
I never said anything about works saving you, that's your shite.
quote:I have God's love letters to His people in the Bible, and I have His Spirit dwelling in me. I speak t Him through prayer, and He speaks to me through His Word.
No, you have a book. Again, you've never met God.
If you mean that I've never had some sort of personal experience where I saw a manifestation of God, or a vision of God, or something similar, then you're right. Very few have. That's not how God typically interacts with people. He is known through creation and through His special revelation in the Bible, and He indwells His people by His Spirit.
quote:If you have understanding and don't seek to share it, isn't that selfish? If it's better to have understanding than to not, then keeping it to yourself is not a good thing. Since very few people have met God face to face as you seem to be claiming, you would think that that special experience makes you especially qualified to be a prophet, since that's essentially what the prophets were: mouthpieces of God to the people based on the knowledge and revelation given to them.
You shouldn't believe me. I'm not your savior, your prophet or any such things. I'm not trying to gain followers, have influence over you or anyone else. There is only one true teacher and it's not me, I can't give understanding.
quote:I'm not selling anything and I'm not making up anything novel. What I preach is directly from the Bible, and I give it away for free, because that is God's message: a free offer of salvation to anyone who will believe it.
I'm not a salesman, you are.
quote:God didn't provide a world-wide message of truth to everyone all at once. It was given to individuals who then shared it with intended audiences. At first, it was a few people who passed the truth down to their families. Then it was an entire nation that taught it to their children. Finally, the message was given to all nations, tongues, and tribes, to be shared through the proclamation of missionaries. That's the gospel message, and it has gone out across the world and continues to make inroads to those who are held captive by false religions like Islam. It is a message that is being shared with YOU right now, and instead of accepting it, you are complaining about others not receiving it.
When you say mankind what you really mean is to a select group of people in time, while condemning all others. So no, he didn't reveal the truth to mankind, nor did he preserve the message for you. Men did that because it gave them authority. But you don't really understand the real sorcery and spells of this world.
quote:Live in sin? That's the opposite of what I said. I said that part of salvation is repenting/turning from sin and seeking obedience out of thankfulness, and that anyone who continues to live a life of unrepentant sin should doubt that they are truly saved.
That's not what you believe. You believe Jesus sacrificed his life so that you can live in sin and still be saved.
quote:No one seeks apart from God's converting grace. No one desires the God of the Bible as He is without God doing a miraculous work in them. Even you are complaining about some people not having a chance at salvation while you reject the offer being made to you right now. Why? Do you really care about whether or not the offer is made available to everyone when you reject it, yourself?
Because it's impossible that it really means - if you seek the way the truth and the life you can come to the father, that you will then know the father because the father will be in you, and that he will teach you all things. Of which would be available to people of all cultures and time periods rather than God condemning the majority of people with no chance at being saved.
You are also acting as if everyone is innocent and deserves salvation. If no one is capable of coming to the Father except where He allows, as Jesus says, then no one who would have believed in God (the elect) has missed out, because God has saved all those whom He chose to show mercy towards.
quote:Again, no one who is damned is getting a raw deal. All get what they deserve except those who are saved by God's grace. We don't get what we deserve. We deserve damnation. God is a merciful God, offering clemency and pardon to everyone who hears the message of the gospel though no one deserves it.
Your message is of a God who isn't worth worshiping. Why don't you care about all the people who are condemned to hell with no chance of redemption? I mean if they just choose poorly that would be one thing, but in reality these people are/were never given the chance to start with.
quote:All things are ultimately done for God's glory. He made a covenant within the godhead to create humans and to save some from the sin that would come into the world. In doing so, God would be glorified for His mercy, while His justice would be on full display for those who hate Him and don't want to worship Him, but suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
Is your God just a poor planner? This weird ritual of human sacrifice was the best he could come up with to save humans? What even is the purpose of life on Earth if the only lesson to take away is - believe in Jesus? Just so we have a place to come and sin, with the added risk of going to hell if you don't believe the right thing?
The point of this life is to worship God and obey Him, giving Him glory and honor in obedience. Because we are sinners and have a sinful nature, we do not do what we were created to do. We all deserve to receive everlasting damnation for our rebellion against our creator, but He has shown mercy to some, and is glorified all the more because of it.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 3:28 am to 3down10
quote:If you recall in our previous conversation, I was supporting my beliefs through the gospel accounts, not from Paul. Why? Because Paul supports what Jesus taught, because both messages come from the same source: God. You don't even agree with what Jesus taught, as I've shown. You only agree with some passages that you misinterpret in order to support your own beliefs.
No, you claim to speak for God because of a book you were given. Your historical record was selected. There were plenty of other gospels and writings from the time that were rejected because they didn't agree with Paul's teachings. Different people had different beliefs. You are not a follower of Jesus you are a follower of Paul.
The truth was revealed and written down. False writings were never distributed by the Apostles or their close associates, and shared with the churches planted by the Apostles, so there was no pedigree to go with them. They also failed the truth test by contradicting what was already accepted as Scripture.
quote:Understanding of what? There has to be some message of truth for you to understand, and since that message contradicts what the Bible teaches, and since it seems to be different from what other religions teach (unless you're a proponent of a particular religion that you haven't mentioned), then you must have understanding of a particular revelation from God, as prophets are given.
I did not receive a message, I was given understanding. I am not of this universe/creation. It's impossible for me to reject it. It's also why it's impossible for me to accept what you claim.
quote:I don't worship the cross. I worship the one who died on the cross and was raised from the dead. The God I worship is sitting in glory right now, not dead, but living and ruling.
You don't follow him, you worship the cross and his death. If you went back in time, you'd be asking about when he was going to be crucified so you could stand by and cheer as he died for your sins and saved you.
And no, I wouldn't be cheering for His death. I mourn His death, that my sins put Him on the cross. I'm thankful that He died for me but sorrowful that I am a sinner that needed His death for my life.
quote:That wasn't the point of the narrative. The rich man was spiritually dead and not one of Jesus' chosen; he was a goat, not a sheep. Jesus' interaction with him was not to necessarily save him, but to show him what was necessary for salvation to highlight the man's hypocrisy and self-centeredness. It was also a life lesson to Jesus' disciples, and to us, who read the narrative 2,000 years later.
He could have told the rich man to just wait for his death and he would be able to keep his stuff and be saved.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 3:35 am to 3down10
quote:No, I believe that there are kinds of love, and that there is a special love that God has for His elect that He doesn't have for the reprobate, but that doesn't mean God doesn't love all people in some sense.
Well that's not what you believe at all. You believe God only loves those who have access to Jesus over the past 2000 years of humanity.
I love all people, especially my friends and family, but I have a special love for my wife that I don't have for other women that I love.
quote:Its absurd to you because you are blind to the truth. You complain about the Christian message being exclusive (as if any other message of salvation is totally inclusive
So God made all humans to worship him, yet created people so that it was impossible for them to do so properly. And since he failed to create them properly, he will instead condemn them to live in hell for eternity. But then in his great wisdom, he gave a certain group a human sacrifice and if they believe this human sacrifice is God, then he will pardon them.
And this system is the best idea your God could come up with and it's because he loves everyone.
What you believe is absurd.
) but then reject it when it is presented to you. You should be happy that you have been blessed with a winning lottery ticket, but instead you condemn the God who has given you this offer. The offer of salvation goes out throughout the world. It's going to you right now, but you call it absurd. The Scriptures call you a "fool" because you are foolish in your understanding, which is ironic, since you claim to have all understanding. You, who claim to be wise, have become a fool, just as the Bible teaches.
Abandon your foolishness and embrace Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
quote:The Truth (Jesus) has already died to give life to the spiritually dead. Your choice is to accept the pardon for your sins or to reject it, but you are accountable for what you do in this moment.
If the truth must die in order for me to live, then I would rather not live.
quote:You spoke previously about obeying the law. That's what "good works" are; obedience to the law of God.
I never said anything about "good works".
Posted on 1/1/26 at 11:55 am to FooManChoo
quote:
No, I believe that there are kinds of love, and that there is a special love that God has for His elect that He doesn't have for the reprobate, but that doesn't mean God doesn't love all people in some sense.
I love all people, especially my friends and family, but I have a special love for my wife that I don't have for other women that I love.
Yeah, nothing says love like creating people knowing they will spend eternity in hell.
Person dies: God says - did you accept the sacrifice of Jesus as being that which saves you.
Person: Who is Jesus?
God - Burn in hell motherfricker, but remember, I love you.
quote:
Its absurd to you because you are blind to the truth. You complain about the Christian message being exclusive (as if any other message of salvation is totally inclusive ) but then reject it when it is presented to you. You should be happy that you have been blessed with a winning lottery ticket, but instead you condemn the God who has given you this offer.
The offer of salvation goes out throughout the world. It's going to you right now, but you call it absurd. The Scriptures call you a "fool" because you are foolish in your understanding, which is ironic, since you claim to have all understanding. You, who claim to be wise, have become a fool, just as the Bible teaches.
Abandon your foolishness and embrace Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Understanding is universal and available to anyone of any time period and culture who seeks it.
You are the one who rejects that and worships the death of Jesus instead. And how selfish of you to be happy for your own saving while billions of others will burn in hell simply by being born in a different culture.
How great would you think God was if you were born in 500BC China when you find out - well you were born 500 years to early and in the wrong region, so burn in hell!
I can no more abandon my understanding as I could the fact 1+1=2. Just like I'm going reject people like you who say 1+1=5, because you lack understanding to know better and just repeat what you are told.
quote:
The Truth (Jesus) has already died to give life to the spiritually dead. Your choice is to accept the pardon for your sins or to reject it, but you are accountable for what you do in this moment.
No, he apparently died to give life to only a few people. And God created everyone else knowing full damn well they were destined to hell - and he punishes and tortures them for eternity according to you.
You want to me to pay attention to only one hand while ignoring the other hand.
quote:
You spoke previously about obeying the law. That's what "good works" are; obedience to the law of God.
I said you must keep the commandments, I don't give a frick about Mosaic law or what "good" things you do. I've never said anything about doing good things being that which saves people, most of those so called good things aren't really good at all. It doesn't matter if you built a homeless shelter or whatever.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 12:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If you recall in our previous conversation, I was supporting my beliefs through the gospel accounts, not from Paul. Why? Because Paul supports what Jesus taught, because both messages come from the same source: God. You don't even agree with what Jesus taught, as I've shown. You only agree with some passages that you misinterpret in order to support your own beliefs.
The truth was revealed and written down. False writings were never distributed by the Apostles or their close associates, and shared with the churches planted by the Apostles, so there was no pedigree to go with them. They also failed the truth test by contradicting what was already accepted as Scripture.
None of this is true.
You ignore the parts of things like John 14 and then you just put the Paulline doctrine on top of it. To claim you aren't applying Paul's teachings is a straight out LIE.
quote:
Understanding of what? There has to be some message of truth for you to understand, and since that message contradicts what the Bible teaches, and since it seems to be different from what other religions teach (unless you're a proponent of a particular religion that you haven't mentioned), then you must have understanding of a particular revelation from God, as prophets are given.
I was given understanding of creation itself. I am that I am, I always have been, I always will be. I'm not part of this creation and I am fully aware of that fact. Consciousness is not part of this universe, it only exists because God makes it exist.
Did you know creation was actually static and time isn't real? Did you know all things which are possible exist? Did you know there is a real and actual path you take through creation? From different physics to basically everything you can imagine and more.
Do you think it possible for God to create an object he can't move and still be all powerful? It is. In fact, that's what makes life possible.
Why? Because the real power is choice. And that's also what determines your path through creation. Every choice you make changes/determines your path. You can decide to go rob a bank tomorrow and your creation will take you through a path that is much worse, likely prison time etc. You can decide to go out and help someone, and your path will be completely different. Both of these exist in creation, which becomes reality is your choice.
Our perspective of this is linear, but creation is far from that. There are higher dimensions of geometry and things that can show whats around us. Decisions like I mentioned above are "close" and thus easier to obtain. However the reality where I am president of the US is far away, and would require large/extreme jumps "sideways", or even "backwards". But our paths are always in front of us.
As such it's up people to be the change they want to see. Is everyone destined to spend eternity in "hell" as you claim? Not really. However, it is definitely a path people can take as a result of their decisions. It's not eternal unless God just has mercy on them and destroys their soul. Mostly it's a matter of how far into hell someone must get before they learn and change their path. No matter what state someone is in, they can ALWAYS start to make the right choices and get on the right path. Not to be confused with the blind eye you worship.
You are the result of God putting limitations on himself, the same as moving the rock or not is a choice. That's what your soul/consciousness is, a piece of God. Without that limitation reality/you can not exist, the creation once again will become static and without time. This is the father/son relationship. I know my father is much greater than I am. My flesh is of my parents DNA, but my ultimate being is of the father.
Now, other Christians when I explain this point me to Jesus and the things he said. When he says - that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh, it tells me he understands.
You on the other hand are determined to make me believe Jesus and God is terrible, and that you are special because you worship the death of truth.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 12:30 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I don't worship the cross. I worship the one who died on the cross and was raised from the dead. The God I worship is sitting in glory right now, not dead, but living and ruling.
And no, I wouldn't be cheering for His death. I mourn His death, that my sins put Him on the cross. I'm thankful that He died for me but sorrowful that I am a sinner that needed His death for my life.
You worship the death of truth because you are of the lie and the only way you can live is for the truth to die.
That is why all truth tellers are killed. It threatens the satanic forces of this earth and those who benefit from the lie. And they will continue to be killed until people embrace the actual truth.
If the truth must die in order for me to live, then I do not want to live. If I can not live in truth, then life is not worth living. I would rather die like those before me who followed the truth instead of the lie. You only care about saving yourself.
quote:
That wasn't the point of the narrative. The rich man was spiritually dead and not one of Jesus' chosen; he was a goat, not a sheep. Jesus' interaction with him was not to necessarily save him, but to show him what was necessary for salvation to highlight the man's hypocrisy and self-centeredness. It was also a life lesson to Jesus' disciples, and to us, who read the narrative 2,000 years later.
Blah blah blah. The bottom line is his message is not the same as yours. You would not tell the rich man the same things Jesus did. You tell the rich man to pay taxes and titles to those who benefit from the lie, and that disobedience to that is disobedience to God.
There is a good reason why I reject your "easy" way.
This post was edited on 1/1/26 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 1/1/26 at 12:39 pm to 3down10
quote:You keep phrasing it like God sends innocent people to Hell simply for not hearing about or for rejecting the message of salvation through Jesus.
Yeah, nothing says love like creating people knowing they will spend eternity in hell.
Person dies: God says - did you accept the sacrifice of Jesus as being that which saves you.
Person: Who is Jesus?
God - Burn in hell motherfricker, but remember, I love you.
The reason the message of salvation is sent in the first place is because all have sinned and are guilty already, and no one deserves salvation.
Imagine a parent whose child is convicted of mass murder. The parent can both love their child as well as desire justice to be done by punishing being done on the one they love.
God does not delight in the destruction of the wicked.
quote:There needs to be a standard or source for understanding. You have to have something to understand. What is that something, and how do you find it?
Understanding is universal and available to anyone of any time period and culture who seeks it.
quote:Its not selfish to be thankful for my own salvation. I’m not hoarding knowledge and understanding like you appear to be.
You are the one who rejects that and worships the death of Jesus instead. And how selfish of you to be happy for your own saving while billions of others will burn in hell simply by being born in a different culture.
I am sharing the gospel with many right now. I’m sharing it with you right now. I share it in person with many. That’s what Christians are supposed to do, which is why missionaries exist, and why the average Christian shares the gospel with their friends, family, coworkers, and others.
And once again, no one goes to Hell for being born in a different culture. People who go to Hell do so because they are sinners and they do not want to worship the one true God as they ought. God has never sent someone to on Hell who trusts in Him and His promises.
quote:Again, they deserve justice just like you and I do. No one punished by God unjustly. All are guilty. It is only because of God’s mercy that any are pardoned, and many are.
How great would you think God was if you were born in 500BC China when you find out - well you were born 500 years to early and in the wrong region, so burn in hell!
quote:You keep talking about “understanding” but haven’t provided any details on what you are supposed to understand and why.
I can no more abandon my understanding as I could the fact 1+1=2. Just like I'm going reject people like you who say 1+1=5, because you lack understanding to know better and just repeat what you are told.
quote:If you consider billions of people “a few”, perhaps you are deficient in math.
No, he apparently died to give life to only a few people. And God created everyone else knowing full damn well they were destined to hell - and he punishes and tortures them for eternity according to you.
No one is innocent. Why do you keep insinuating that God punishes innocents when all are sinners and break God’s law.
You may not like that God is just and holy, but that doesn’t change that He is.
quote:I don’t know you are referring to. I’m talking about both hands: God is loving and merciful, but He is also holy and just.
You want to me to pay attention to only one hand while ignoring the other hand.
quote:Good works of obedience to God are precisely what I’m talking about.
I said you must keep the commandments, I don't give a frick about Mosaic law or what "good" things you do. I've never said anything about doing good things being that which saves people, most of those so called good things aren't really good at all. It doesn't matter if you built a homeless shelter or whatever.
What commandments are you referring to that we must keep? Why must we keep them? How do we know this?
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