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Message
re: The latest on Global Warming
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:15 pm to SpidermanTUba
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:15 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:Not in terms of overall growth. Both overall ice sheet mass and sea ice mass are growing.
Unfortunately, those links refer to the Antarctic ice SHEET - not the sea ice. As you are no doubt aware - there's a pretty big difference.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:20 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Not in terms of overall growth. Both overall ice sheet mass and sea ice mass are growing.
The links in the OP article which the OP claim refer to sea ice melting actually refer to ice sheet melting. That OP article's premise is based on this faulty claim. You continue to dance all you want, but this is /thread.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:23 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:You weren't missed, fwiw.
since my temporary banning.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:24 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:Antarctic Ice Mass is growing. True or False?
The links in the OP article which the OP claim refer to sea ice melting actually refer to ice sheet melting. That OP article's premise is based on this faulty claim. You continue to dance all you want, but this is /thread.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:25 pm to Iosh
quote:
N...no?
LINK
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/Iconconfused.gif)
Do you understand the term "Antarctica"?
Do you understand the term "ice-sheets" as pertains to Antarctica?
Do you understand, for example, the EAIS dwarfs the WAIS?
Do you understand even slight growth in EAIS mass can more than compensate loss in the WAIS?
quote:
Mass Gains of the Antarctic Ice Sheet Exceed Losses
H. Jay Zwally'. Jun Li', John Robbins2, Jack 1. Saba2, Donghui Yi', Anita Brenner', and David
Bromwich4
July 14, 2012
Abstract
During 2003 to 2008, the mass gain of the Antarctic ice sheet from snow accumulation exceeded the mass loss from ice discharge by 49 Gtlyr (2.5% of input), as derived from ICESat laser measurements of elevation change. The net gain (86 Gtlyr) over the West Antarctic (WA) and East Antarctic ice sheets (W A and EA) is essentially unchanged from revised results for 1992 to 2001 from ERS radar altimetry. Imbalances in individual drainage systems (DS) are large (-68% to +103% of input), as are temporal changes (-39% to +44%). The recent 90 Gtlyr loss from three DS (Pine Island, Thwaites-Smith, and Marie-Bryd Coast) of WA exceeds the earlier 61 Gtlyr loss, consistent with reports of accelerating ice flow and dynamic thinning. Similarly, the recent 24 Gtlyr loss from three DS in the Antarctic Peninsula (AP) is consistent with glacier accelerations following breakup of the Larsen B and other ice shelves.
In contrast, net increases in the five other DS of WA and AP and three of the 16 DS in East Antarctica (EA) exceed the increased losses. Alternate interpretations of the mass changes driven by accumulation variations are given using results from atmospheric-model re-analysis and a parameterization based on 5% change in accumulation per degree of observed surface temperature change. A slow increase in snowfall with climate wanning, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.
quote:
Snowfall-Driven Growth in East Antarctic Ice Sheet Mitigates Recent Sea-Level Rise
Curt H. Davis1,*, Yonghong Li1, Joseph R. McConnell2, Markus M. Frey3, Edward Hanna4 + Author Affiliations 1 Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Missouri–Columbia, Columbia, MO 65211, USA. 2 Desert Research Institute, University and Community College System of Nevada, Reno, NV 89512, USA. 3 Department of Hydrology and Water Resources, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721, USA. 4 Department of Geography, University of Sheffield, Sheffield S10 2TN, UK.
Abstract
Satellite radar altimetry measurements indicate that the East Antarctic ice-sheet interior north of 81.6°S increased in mass by 45 ± 7 billion metric tons per year from 1992 to 2003. Comparisons with contemporaneous meteorological model snowfall estimates suggest that the gain in mass was associated with increased precipitation.
ICESAT Data Shows Mass Gains of the Antarctic Ice Sheet Exceed Losses - September 10, 2012
Posted on 7/5/14 at 7:35 pm to Iosh
Clicked the link and am I reading this wrong?
Not saying it specifically means something, but good god those are some HUGE plus/minuses relative to the size of the measurements. East Antartica's plus/minus is 3 times the actual measurement.
They can't get it anymore exact than that?
Holy shite, they call that greater certainty?! What the frick numbers were they getting prior to this...
I mean, I know you can't just dump an ice shelf on a scale and all but good god. How does one publish data where the potential swing is several times greater than the data?
quote:
Between 1992 and 2011, the ice sheets of Greenland, East Antarctica, West Antarctica, and the Antarctic Peninsula changed in mass by –142 ± 49, +14 ± 43, –65 ± 26, and –20 ± 14 gigatonnes year-1, respectively.
Not saying it specifically means something, but good god those are some HUGE plus/minuses relative to the size of the measurements. East Antartica's plus/minus is 3 times the actual measurement.
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif)
They can't get it anymore exact than that?
quote:
combining satellite data sets leads to greater certainty.
Holy shite, they call that greater certainty?! What the frick numbers were they getting prior to this...
I mean, I know you can't just dump an ice shelf on a scale and all but good god. How does one publish data where the potential swing is several times greater than the data?
Posted on 7/5/14 at 8:20 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Do you understand the term "Antarctica"?
Do you understand the term "ice-sheets" as pertains to Antarctica?
Do you understand, for example, the EAIS dwarfs the WAIS?
Do you understand even slight growth in EAIS mass can more than compensate loss in the WAIS?
I understand all these things, which is why the link I gave explicitly quantified the per-sheet loss by mass rather than area. Unless you'd like to argue that a gigaton weighs more in the EAIS than the WAIS, none of what you just said is relevant to the paper I linked.
Hint: The "losses exceed gains" paper is from later than the "gains exceed losses" presentation. They share four authors, including Dr. Zwally, the team lead giving the presentation. The paper samples from a longer time period and from more sources. It includes the term "reconciled estimate." We can draw certain conclusions from this. One of them is that relying on a hasty site:wattsupwiththat.com [keyword] Google for your rebuttal without bothering to read or understand either source is a tricky business.
quote:
East Antartica's plus/minus is 3 times the actual measurement.
Yes. Functionally, we still aren't sure whether the EAIS is growing or shrinking. Of course, skeptics will argue that not only are we sure the EAIS is growing, we're sure it's growing enough to compensate for the WAIS and the peninsula. They know this because... look! a squirrel! Al Gore is fat! Hockey sticks! Socialism!
This post was edited on 7/5/14 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 7/5/14 at 8:40 pm to Iosh
quote:
Yes. Functionally, we still aren't sure whether the EAIS is growing or shrinking
Posted on 7/5/14 at 8:52 pm to NC_Tigah
Yeah, if I were you I'd stick to emoticon-based rebuttals too.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 9:01 pm to Iosh
quote:Look, the EAIS is growing. The WAIS is shrinking. Both are precipitation related. It is what it is.
Yeah, if I were you I'd stick to emoticon-based rebuttals too.
If you want to attempt a credible counter that we know nearly exact parameters of WAIS decline, but nothing of the EAIS, then be my guest. It's a ridiculous position. Even most avowed warmists would realize that. But by all means, have at it.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 9:06 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Look, the EAIS is growing. The WAIS is shrinking. Both are precipitation related. It is what it is.
If you want to attempt a credible counter that we know nearly exact parameters of WAIS decline, but nothing of the EAIS, then be my guest. It's a ridiculous position. Even most avowed warmists would realize that. But by all means, have at it.
Nobody claims to know the exact parameters of anything. That's why margins of error exist. What I have claimed to know is what was shown by the paper I provided; that the EAIS increase, as measured from a reconciled estimate of several satellite sources, is within the margin of error of zero, while the WAIS decline is not. You responded with a frankly embarassing WUWT turd-mine showing that you had not bothered to read as far as the date, title, and author list of said paper. Perhaps you could try reading it?
This post was edited on 7/5/14 at 9:09 pm
Posted on 7/5/14 at 9:14 pm to Iosh
quote:and what a margin it was!
is within the margin of error of zero
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif)
quote:(1) Net increases in the EAIS exceed WAIS losses. A slow increase in snowfall with climate wanning, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.
You responded with a frankly embarassing WUWT turd-mine
(2) The East Antarctic ice-sheet increased in mass by 45 ± 7 billion metric tons per year from 1992 to 2003
Period!
Posted on 7/5/14 at 9:36 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
(1) Net increases in the EAIS exceed WAIS losses. A slow increase in snowfall with climate wanning, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.
And the same author making this presentation is listed as an author on the paper I posted, which post-dates the presentation. It's not current research. Are you just going to ignore this fact and keep repeating the WUWT post? (Hey, that last sentence could apply to pretty much every global warming debate I've ever had!)
quote:
(2) The East Antarctic ice-sheet increased in mass by 45 ± 7 billion metric tons per year from 1992 to 2003
Speaking of not current research, it's a ten-year old paper using a single measurement source of only the portion of the EAIS above the 81st parallel! Glad to see we're reaching back to trends that are by now older than the span they measured in a thread titled "the latest on GW." (PS: This is the fourth paper cited in the paper I linked. It's really quite good. Alas, you aren't interested in science, you're only interested in ammunition. Even if the ammunition is low-caliber, steel-cased bullshite.)
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 12:33 am
Posted on 7/6/14 at 12:19 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Antarctic Ice Mass is growing. True or False?
quote:LINK
We combined an ensemble of satellite altimetry, interferometry, and gravimetry data sets using common geographical regions, time intervals, and models of surface mass balance and glacial isostatic adjustment to estimate the mass balance of Earth’s polar ice sheets. We find that there is good agreement between different satellite methods—especially in Greenland and West Antarctica—and that combining satellite data sets leads to greater certainty. Between 1992 and 2011, the ice sheets of Greenland, East Antarctica, West Antarctica, and the Antarctic Peninsula changed in mass by –142 ± 49, +14 ± 43, –65 ± 26, and –20 ± 14 gigatonnes year-1, respectively. Since 1992, the polar ice sheets have contributed, on average, 0.59 ± 0.20 millimeter year-1 to the rate of global sea-level rise.
+14 + -65 + -20 = ???
you do the math.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 12:20 am
Posted on 7/6/14 at 12:28 am to AUin02
quote:
They can't get it anymore exact than that?
The can but the scale they used to weigh continents is broken right now.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 12:31 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Look, the EAIS is growing. The WAIS is shrinking. Both are precipitation related. It is what it is.
Actually your own linked paper says the increases are due to heavier snowfall brought on by GW induced precipitation - consistent with climate models
quote:
A slow increase in snowfall with climate waRMing, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.
I'm surprised you agree the climate is warming. I thought you had general disdain for the models as well.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 12:32 am to Iosh
quote:
It's not current research. Are you just going to ignore this fact and keep repeating the WUWT post?
He is.
There are actually three common authors between the papers.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 12:32 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
The can but the scale they used to weigh continents is broken right now.
Well let them borrow your mom's scale then sheesh.
Could.Not.Resist.
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif)
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 12:33 am
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