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re: The ISP/privacy issue, the dilemma and "conservatives"

Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:05 pm to
Posted by jeff5891
Member since Aug 2011
15899 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

A standard that major content providers like Google and Facebook did not have to.


And a terrible comparison and fallacious.

One is a service that is provided on the internet that you opt out of by not signing in or going incognito.

The other is an actual gateway to the internet
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 8:05 pm
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44120 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

Here you even acknowledge that the two are different categories of industry.


And HIPPA applies to all categories of industry. Privacy law done correctly.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44120 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

One is a service that is provided on the internet that you opt out of by not signing in or going incognito.


I hate to break it to you brother, but you're still being used for ad revenue.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44120 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:06 pm to
quote:

But basically you are mad that we don't regulate both as opt-in? So therefore we should just regulate none of them until then?


We should regulate them equally.

Why do you folks love the idea of regulations applying to one group but not another?

Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:09 pm to
quote:

We should regulate them equally.

Why do you folks love the idea of regulations applying to one group but not another?




You aren't answering the questions. You are deflecting.

You have not established why this creates an advantage, what that advantage is and why both should always be treated the same and dealt with together when it comes to regulation?

Posted by jeff5891
Member since Aug 2011
15899 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:09 pm to
quote:

I hate to break it to you brother, but you're still being used for ad revenue.


Explain
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44120 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:10 pm to
It creates an advantage because ISPs cannot use the same data that content providers do to generate revenue.

Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44120 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:12 pm to
quote:

wrong. As of right now the info ISPs collect is more extensive


ISPs know where you go. Content providers know where you go, why you're there, and what you're buying. Not to mention all the personal bullshite people vomit on social media.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:25 pm to
quote:

It creates an advantage because ISPs cannot use the same data that content providers do to generate revenue.





That is not typically what is meant by advantage. Advantage would typically be that by outlawing a type of machine that both the beef and chicken industry use to keep costs down and produce their product, but only applying that restriction to the chicken industry. Therefore the beef industry is given a competitive advantage because they are direct competitors in the meat market.

By your logic it is wrong to force tobacco companies to restrict advertising or have the surgeon generals warning on their box because their profits are affected, meanwhile high sugar food companies, that contribute to diabetes and obesity, are still allowed to advertise and are not governed by such warnings.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 8:27 pm
Posted by jeff5891
Member since Aug 2011
15899 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 8:55 pm to
quote:

It creates an advantage


Posted by oklahogjr
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
40237 posts
Posted on 3/29/17 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

This also creates a huge opportunity for market growth for smaller ISPs not named AT&T, Comcast, Google, Time Warner, etc. The smaller ISPs won't be able to financially gain near as much as the big dogs when it comes to selling customer data but they do get a nice big marketing chip to play by selling privacy and security to their customers

See the problem with this logic is you assume that the big companies won't use the government to prevent more small isps. They only preach smaller government when the government doesn't promote their local monopolies.
quote:

with their own property/equipment/data/etc.

Except we subsidize the isps and all their property.



Posted by Captain Rumbeard
Member since Jan 2014
6144 posts
Posted on 3/30/17 at 4:25 am to
quote:

That is quite bizarre. Its like saying we shouldn't increase the hypothetical safety standards in the food processing industry that had numerous quality control problems until we address the hypothetical safety standards at the grocery stores simultaneously. Furthermore, I think you need to explain how, if you stand by your last sentence, this creates a market advantage when one is a gateway internet company and one is a content company on the internet? Or just what market they are both operating in together that this advantages the other?


Know how I know they're both in the same market?

Because they serve the same customer. And the reason Google wanted this regulation on the ISP's was all about increasing market share. Cutting out competition for their product. Your information. They bought and paid for this. Now they're losing that lobbying money because they bet wrong. It happens. It's not the end of the world.

It really is that simple.
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:37 am to
quote:

And HIPPA applies to all categories of industry. Privacy law done correctly.



It's HIPAA, and no it doesn't. It applies to covered entities and business associates. You've repeated this as fact multiple times now, even saying that the ISPs would be regulated under HIPAA laws already.

Just like the FTC bullshite, you don't know what you're talking about again


Feel free to check out the HHS website

Case and point: the media can release HIPAA protected information they obtained as they aren't covered....
This post was edited on 3/30/17 at 8:49 am
Posted by TigerBait1127
Houston
Member since Jun 2005
47336 posts
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:45 am to
quote:

Of course not. Which is why I'm advocating all parties be subject to the same privacy requirements.

The FCC ruling did not do this. Therefore it was rightfully removed.




That isn't what you're doing at all.

Your issue would be with the FTC and imposing stricter regulations, not on the FCC for their jurisdiction over common carriers. Jesus Christ
Posted by CCTider
Member since Dec 2014
25071 posts
Posted on 3/30/17 at 8:50 am to
quote:

So while I don't like the idea of personal data getting exploited for the gain of crony capitalist giants, this is a situation where what they want is actually a step in the right direction as far as reducing government. 



You seem to be fully cucked, but I'm gonna say something that will blow your mind...


Sometimes, government regulations are a good thing. And this situation is a good example.


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