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re: The Harriet Tubman legend is literally a myth invented by 2 Communist writers
Posted on 2/8/26 at 12:10 pm to TigerDoc
Posted on 2/8/26 at 12:10 pm to TigerDoc
Are you familiar with "Forbidden Archaeology" by Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson? We must admit that archaeology like the much revered theory of relativity is self-referential, assuming facts that are either not in evidence or not falsifiable. The things you mention are chaff meant to confuse those not fluent on those areas. The foundational claims of the archaeological timeline do not survive empiric scrutiny and have been accepted as articles of faith. If just one of the things that Forbidden Archaeology describes is true, then the entire time line of "human evolution/history" is exploded. Fomenko has done the same thing from a completely different line of inquiry using statistical analysis of historical documents and astronomical phenomena. His logic and methods have never been critiqued in any serious way.
3
Posted on 2/8/26 at 12:13 pm to White Tiger
quote:
Are you familiar with "Forbidden Archaeology" by Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson?
Holy shite, you are retarded.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 12:44 pm to White Tiger
I’m not deeply familiar with Forbidden Archaeology, and I won’t pretend otherwise. I also don’t have the fossil or archaeological record memorized in detail.
What I am familiar with is how scientific frameworks are evaluated when they face anomalous claims.
Anomalies exist (including for theories you probably accept) & fields can/do exclude data prematurely (has happened many times in the history of science). Where I think the disagreement lies is here -->scientific frameworks don’t usually stand or fall on a single data point. They persist because multiple independent methods constrain each other (dating techniques, stratigraphy, comparative anatomy, genetics, etc).
That’s why claims like “if just one of these anomalies is true, the entire timeline collapses” strike me as assuming a brittleness that mature sciences usually don’t have. An anomaly has to propagate across independent lines of evidence to do that kind of damage.
I’m open to discussing specific cases from archaeology or paleontology, but I think it’s important we distinguish between (1) showing that anomalies exist and (2) showing that they survive scrutiny better than the framework they challenge. What are the specific anomalies that concern them/you? (I may take a bit to respond, I'm cooking for the superbowl
)
What I am familiar with is how scientific frameworks are evaluated when they face anomalous claims.
Anomalies exist (including for theories you probably accept) & fields can/do exclude data prematurely (has happened many times in the history of science). Where I think the disagreement lies is here -->scientific frameworks don’t usually stand or fall on a single data point. They persist because multiple independent methods constrain each other (dating techniques, stratigraphy, comparative anatomy, genetics, etc).
That’s why claims like “if just one of these anomalies is true, the entire timeline collapses” strike me as assuming a brittleness that mature sciences usually don’t have. An anomaly has to propagate across independent lines of evidence to do that kind of damage.
I’m open to discussing specific cases from archaeology or paleontology, but I think it’s important we distinguish between (1) showing that anomalies exist and (2) showing that they survive scrutiny better than the framework they challenge. What are the specific anomalies that concern them/you? (I may take a bit to respond, I'm cooking for the superbowl
) This post was edited on 2/8/26 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:17 pm to crazy4lsu
Not a persuasive argument, friend.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:22 pm to White Tiger
The maga stuff yall believe......I am entertained
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:23 pm to TigerDoc
From a logical standpoint a single datum can collapse a theory. I am convinced that our historical timeline has been manufactured. Science as a dispassionate pursuit is much as you have described. The problem lies in the fact that much of what is considered foundational is, in fact, false. Consider the provenance of consciousness. Like the physicists with gravity, neuroscience has no explanation for or of it. “Consciousness Beyond Life” by van Lomel is an excellent exploration of this completely ignored topic central to the metaphysical foundations of humans and all things actually.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:24 pm to Tmcgin
Who believes MAGA? I have never espoused it.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:32 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Maybe you only care when it is black people?
Black people are criticized around the clock here.
99% of all threads on here are about white persons
Maybe you need to adjust your own unconscious bias?
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:35 pm to Roaad
quote:
99% of all threads on here are about white persons
I was thinking the same thing. Just wait until progressive racists read what we think about Joe Biden here. Oh man.
Or Hillary Clinton. Gavin Newsome.
Hell, 90% of the threads started this board is ripping a white progressive.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:38 pm to TigerDoc
quote:The real challenge is when the narrative decides what happened, rather that what happened deciding the narrative.
The real challenge, it seems to me, is letting evidence discipline narrative without pretending narrative can ever be removed entirely.
You can only confront that with facts.
Becomes even more touchy when entire cultural identities are drawn from narratives that are pure fantasy.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:40 pm to SludgeFactory
We need Affirmative action on all new threads
For every 7 threads about shitty moronic white people, we need one thread about shitty moronic blacks
For every 7 threads about shitty moronic white people, we need one thread about shitty moronic blacks
Posted on 2/8/26 at 1:42 pm to TigerDoc
quote:Rank
I also don’t have the fossil or archaeological record memorized in detail.
fricking
Amateur
I kid, I am not an autist either
Posted on 2/8/26 at 2:05 pm to White Tiger
IMO, this is where an important distinction needs to be made which that often gets lost in public science debates. You’re right that science is incomplete, and you’re also right that people sometimes slide from scientific models into metaphysical claims. That slide - scientism - is real, and scientists should be much clearer about where their methods stop.
Where I’d draw a firm line is between incompleteness and fabrication. The fact that neuroscience doesn’t explain consciousness, or physics doesn’t explain gravity at a fundamental level, doesn’t imply those fields are built on falsehoods. It implies they’re working with bounded tools that deliberately leave some hard questions open.
To your logic point, yes, a single data point can collapse a theory, but only when that datum is robust enough to survive replication, alternative interpretations, and integration with other independent lines of evidence. Most revolutionary shifts aren’t triggered by anomalies alone, but by anomalies that propagate. E.g. consciousness as a boundary case. It's ok to acknowledge that it resists full scientific explanation without concluding that neuroscience is therefore invalid, or that alternative metaphysical explanations automatically outrank constrained ones.
Unfortunately, this isn't taught well and lots of people do end up inferring either omniscience or fraud. Neither is warranted because science is a powerful but partial tool, not really a total worldview & not a secret cabal manufacturing reality either.
Where I’d draw a firm line is between incompleteness and fabrication. The fact that neuroscience doesn’t explain consciousness, or physics doesn’t explain gravity at a fundamental level, doesn’t imply those fields are built on falsehoods. It implies they’re working with bounded tools that deliberately leave some hard questions open.
To your logic point, yes, a single data point can collapse a theory, but only when that datum is robust enough to survive replication, alternative interpretations, and integration with other independent lines of evidence. Most revolutionary shifts aren’t triggered by anomalies alone, but by anomalies that propagate. E.g. consciousness as a boundary case. It's ok to acknowledge that it resists full scientific explanation without concluding that neuroscience is therefore invalid, or that alternative metaphysical explanations automatically outrank constrained ones.
Unfortunately, this isn't taught well and lots of people do end up inferring either omniscience or fraud. Neither is warranted because science is a powerful but partial tool, not really a total worldview & not a secret cabal manufacturing reality either.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 2:09 pm to White Tiger
It is a very stupid book. If that is your frame of reference I suggest reading anything else.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 2:23 pm to Roaad
Quite right about the danger you’re pointing at. History goes wrong when narrative hardens first and evidence is made to conform to it rather than discipline it.
What’s worth noticing, though, is that this doesn’t usually happen because people reject facts outright. It happens because narratives serve functions - identity, meaning, cohesion - that facts alone don’t provide (I've banged my head arguing facts against narratives long enough here to have learned it the hard way). When those functions dominate, myth can quietly replace inquiry.
Founding legends can oversimplify messy origins & histories can be told as if outcomes were inevitable rather than contingent (or other like oversimplifications), but the problem wasn’t having a narrative (narratives are inevitable). it was forgetting that the narrative was a tool, not the territory. This can happen with abolition history, civil rights history, or any other and you're right to discipline it. What practices, in your experience studying history, best prevent that slide from interpretation into myth?
What’s worth noticing, though, is that this doesn’t usually happen because people reject facts outright. It happens because narratives serve functions - identity, meaning, cohesion - that facts alone don’t provide (I've banged my head arguing facts against narratives long enough here to have learned it the hard way). When those functions dominate, myth can quietly replace inquiry.
Founding legends can oversimplify messy origins & histories can be told as if outcomes were inevitable rather than contingent (or other like oversimplifications), but the problem wasn’t having a narrative (narratives are inevitable). it was forgetting that the narrative was a tool, not the territory. This can happen with abolition history, civil rights history, or any other and you're right to discipline it. What practices, in your experience studying history, best prevent that slide from interpretation into myth?
Posted on 2/8/26 at 8:38 pm to TigerDoc
Your postings savor heavily of AI, maybe especially ChatGPT. Am I correct? To your point regarding a single datum collapsing an entire theory/scientific system, Cremo and Thompson have described 19th century archaeological research locating evidence of the use of tools as remote as the Paleocene using conventional terminology. This puts tool-making many millions of years prior to the earliest accepted claim which is around 3 million years in the Pliocene. No one has raised serious critiques of this work which analyzed 19th century descriptions.
Fomenko's opus magnum was prompted by American astronomer Robert Newton of Johns Hopkins and NASA. He could not rectify ancient eclipse data using precise calculations based on what most people assume are fixed planetary/celestial motions. He assumed, erroneously according to Fomenko, that the historic timeline was a fixed boundary not open to question. Using statistical frequency analysis of literature from "ancient" times comparing same to recent and verifiable records, Fomenko proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the current timeline is not accurate. Anything prior to about the 13th century is probably unknown. He used the reigns of kings, wars and other notable historic events along with astronomical data to prove that many eras in history are actually duplicates. For example, it is the case that ancient Rome did not exist as we have been told. No one has brought any serious criticisms of his methods.
With respect to relativity, its weight bearing pillar concerns the speed of light in a vacuum. If that gives way, the entire system of relativity collapses. This quantity has never been empirically validated. Ever. Michaelson-Morley claimed that their experiment proved the non-existence of aether, something that had been posited as a medium through which light traveled. It need not be stated that an absolute vacuum (despite NASA's prior claims to the contrary) is both a logical and physical impossibility. Dayton Miller did multiple experiments over years under numerous conditions concluding finally that aether moved at about 10 km/s. The only criticism of his work has been intrerpretive.
Relativity at the end of the day is a more or less internally consistent model with no empiric underpinnings. Relativity's predictions are based on assumptiions regarding "space" that are not directly testable i.e. no way to make needed measurements. Appeals to parallax are bootless inasmuch as they make assumptions about the optical characteristics about space that are, well, unknowable at this time.
van Lomel and others have exploded the brain as the provenance of consciousness through the phenomenon of NDE, psychic phenomena of transplant patient which are both well-described. Also, look at multiple cases reported by John Lorber a neurolgist at the University of Sheffied in which patients had severe redutions of brain tissue, specifically the cerebral cortex who were intellectually and socially normal. One man who had perhaps 2 mm of cortex earned a double first in math and had an IQ of 126.
How's that?
Fomenko's opus magnum was prompted by American astronomer Robert Newton of Johns Hopkins and NASA. He could not rectify ancient eclipse data using precise calculations based on what most people assume are fixed planetary/celestial motions. He assumed, erroneously according to Fomenko, that the historic timeline was a fixed boundary not open to question. Using statistical frequency analysis of literature from "ancient" times comparing same to recent and verifiable records, Fomenko proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the current timeline is not accurate. Anything prior to about the 13th century is probably unknown. He used the reigns of kings, wars and other notable historic events along with astronomical data to prove that many eras in history are actually duplicates. For example, it is the case that ancient Rome did not exist as we have been told. No one has brought any serious criticisms of his methods.
With respect to relativity, its weight bearing pillar concerns the speed of light in a vacuum. If that gives way, the entire system of relativity collapses. This quantity has never been empirically validated. Ever. Michaelson-Morley claimed that their experiment proved the non-existence of aether, something that had been posited as a medium through which light traveled. It need not be stated that an absolute vacuum (despite NASA's prior claims to the contrary) is both a logical and physical impossibility. Dayton Miller did multiple experiments over years under numerous conditions concluding finally that aether moved at about 10 km/s. The only criticism of his work has been intrerpretive.
Relativity at the end of the day is a more or less internally consistent model with no empiric underpinnings. Relativity's predictions are based on assumptiions regarding "space" that are not directly testable i.e. no way to make needed measurements. Appeals to parallax are bootless inasmuch as they make assumptions about the optical characteristics about space that are, well, unknowable at this time.
van Lomel and others have exploded the brain as the provenance of consciousness through the phenomenon of NDE, psychic phenomena of transplant patient which are both well-described. Also, look at multiple cases reported by John Lorber a neurolgist at the University of Sheffied in which patients had severe redutions of brain tissue, specifically the cerebral cortex who were intellectually and socially normal. One man who had perhaps 2 mm of cortex earned a double first in math and had an IQ of 126.
How's that?
This post was edited on 2/8/26 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 2/8/26 at 8:38 pm to crazy4lsu
Somehow, your arguments lack...substance. I shall take your advice under consideration.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 9:06 pm to TigerDoc
Pamela Reynolds NDE BBC documentary
Medical science cannot speak to what happened here, all perfectly documented.
Medical science cannot speak to what happened here, all perfectly documented.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 9:17 pm to White Tiger
quote:
(To TigerDoc)
Your postings savor heavily of AI, maybe especially ChatGPT. Am I correct?
I believe you are. (Is he, Doc?)
I'm not so familiar with the individual AI styles but as I was reading his response, I thought the style sounded all too familiar. Hope I'm wrong.
Posted on 2/8/26 at 9:23 pm to TigerDoc
In my historical inquiries, I have found, at the risk of sounding trite, that logic is the best evidence. What I have learned repeatedly is that the presented facts do not make sense together like the entire Civil War narrative which is plainly, a lie from start to finish. The states have the right to secede inasmuch as the Constitution is silent on this point. Eleven states voted, peacefully, to leave having realized that they were destined to be a permanent political minority subject to the wishes and whims of the northern states. The votes were not close. This fact is completely ignored by history despite a major narrative being that "your vote matters"! No discussion of the fact that giving women the vote has resulted in the promotion and perpetuation of most of what is wrong in this world today. There are sound reasos why women and others, were not allowed to vote. Why anyone in government or on the dole is allowed to vote remains unexplained beyond weak appeals to the false god of egalitarianism.
Nothing about the moon landings makes scientific sense. Now that we understand that relativity is nothing more than a model, we can ask questions like, "How are celestial distances measured?" I recommend Dave McGowan's "Wagging the Moon Doggie" which is an excellent thought experiment that completely collapses the Apollo missions.
More recent narratives such as the Las Vegas shooting lacked any semblance of rigorous forensic investigation such as autopsies available for public scrutiny, appropriate analysis of ballistics and the ponderous question of how Paddock got all that gear into the hotel unnoticed. Moreover, why did it take security so long to respond? Also, still no serious official analysis of acoustic data in the Charlie Kirk murder.
Nothing about the moon landings makes scientific sense. Now that we understand that relativity is nothing more than a model, we can ask questions like, "How are celestial distances measured?" I recommend Dave McGowan's "Wagging the Moon Doggie" which is an excellent thought experiment that completely collapses the Apollo missions.
More recent narratives such as the Las Vegas shooting lacked any semblance of rigorous forensic investigation such as autopsies available for public scrutiny, appropriate analysis of ballistics and the ponderous question of how Paddock got all that gear into the hotel unnoticed. Moreover, why did it take security so long to respond? Also, still no serious official analysis of acoustic data in the Charlie Kirk murder.
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