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re: The Fundamental Flaw in every last God/No God thread ever on this board
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:04 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:04 pm to FooManChoo
It's fun watching you try to bring logic into your points. Assumptions and beliefs can be, and are molded to fit worldviews. This is no different. Applying it to something and trying to mask it as anything more than mythology doesn't fly.
0
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:06 pm to chRxis
The answer to death is sin. Everyone is guilty of it, even children, whether it is their own actual sins or the original sin of our original parents. All are guilty and that's why we need Jesus' representation on our behalf. We are guilty because of Adam and we are innocent because of Christ. That is, if we have faith in Him.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:17 pm to FooManChoo
God created man but gave him free choice. God gave instruction to the created. All beings lived without death in the beginning. There was one little issue and that was one of God's angels was guilty of vanity and pride and found himself on the outside with followers too. A third of the infinite angels came down with the one. The one was a lying snake and convinced the created to listen to him instead of God. Sin, which in it's basic form, is anything that separates the created from God, came into the created's world. With sin came death and all that may cause it.
Physical death is what our bodies endure. Spiritual death comes from non belief. Jesus overcame death, the grave and the one, so that all mankind may have the choice to have the same as He.
for chRxis
Simplified but
Physical death is what our bodies endure. Spiritual death comes from non belief. Jesus overcame death, the grave and the one, so that all mankind may have the choice to have the same as He.
for chRxis
Simplified but
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:20 pm to themunch
Agree with everything you said but the implication of semi pelagianism. 
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:29 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
They have math to substantiate portions of their claims.
And more math to fill in the gaps. They're not using fairies to bridge the gaps.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:30 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If it is assumed that the universe is infinite and has no beginning then it is a fallacy to ask who or what created it
FIFY
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:31 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The answer to death is sin. Everyone is guilty of it, even children
Did you just say that children who die of terminal cancer deserve it, because of sin?
You can frick right off with that bronze-age bullshite.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:32 pm to BamaAtl
quote:That would be a valid "fix" if it were agreed upon that the universe was infinite and had no beginning or end.
FIFY
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:32 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
That would be a valid "fix" if it were agreed upon that the universe was infinite and had no beginning or end.
It is so agreed upon.
Glad we had this chat.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:33 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
And more math to fill in the gaps.
Incorrect.
quote:
They're not using fairies to bridge the gaps.
Of course not. For the most part, that would not be compelling.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:33 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Thank you for your emotional response. And right on cue, too.
Did you just say that children who die of terminal cancer deserve it, because of sin?
You can frick right off with that bronze-age bull shite.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:34 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Nope, it is not, but I'm glad you're glad.
It is so agreed upon.
Glad we had this chat.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:35 pm to BamaAtl
id you just say that children who die of terminal cancer deserve it, because of sin?
That is not what is said. You are not that simple in your thoughts. God also gives you and I brains and the want for knowledge to overcome things of life.
That is not what is said. You are not that simple in your thoughts. God also gives you and I brains and the want for knowledge to overcome things of life.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:37 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If it is assumed that God is infinite and has no beginning then it is a fallacy to ask who or what created it, even if God doesn't exist.
To assume makes an "arse" out of "u" and "me." That's why it isn't used in the scientific community.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:45 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
Agnosticism
quote:
only evidence-based stance.
Prove it!
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:45 pm to ShortyRob
quote:What's interesting about this rant about pointing out the "fundamental flaw" of the God debates is that you yourself can't even clearly state what the problem is
The flaw is simple. The conversation takes place where the word "God" is never defined and the arguments vacillate between arguments that might be over the question "Is there a God of the Bible" to being over "Is there some all powerful force that created the universe" to "could there have been supremely advanced beings that created the universe?
The problem is, often, you see counter arguments that apply to ONE of the above being used to apply to a different element of the above. IE, the "eyeball" argument used by people as support for the God of the Bible when all it really supports(if anything) is the idea of SOME creator who may or may not be supernatural. And frick, even supernatural is problematic here. What if a supremely advanced race from ANOTHER universe is in the universe creating business. They would exist OUTSIDE our "nature" so, they'd be "supernatural". LOL
And BOTH the theists and the atheists have this problem. Basically, the core discussion takes place as if it was still 500AD.
You see theists using "evidence" that really just supports the idea that there had to be some "designer" but that really is only evidence of about 100 possible designers even if accepted as evidence at all.
On the other side, you get atheists who travel from the reasonable, "the God of the Bible is a highly suspect concept" to the absurd "we can absolutely know that there is no creative force responsible for our universe at all.
Then, we call people who recognize that we can't possibly fathom what supremely advanced beings might be capable "agnostics" but that term loses all meaning if we are suddenly expanding "God" to mean "anything other than completely random shite happening".
OK. Soap box complete.
Try again...
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:51 pm to Kentucker
quote:False. There are tons of fundamental assumptions made in science. Uniformitarianism is one giant accepted assumption that underpins scientific understanding of past events.
To assume makes an "arse" out of "u" and "me." That's why it isn't used in the scientific community.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:58 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:Nonsense. There is plenty of evidence for the possibility of God. The best being existence itself.
No, there is no evidence for a god.
quote:That's a grand statement. And how did you come to this conclusion?
No such proof could possibly exist and to suggest otherwise is ignorant or foolish.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:12 pm to ShortyRob
quote:negative. for example, consciousness cannot pull itself up by it's own bootstraps. since we gain empirical knowledge through consciousness, we know consciousness exists (descartes' cogito). this requires an explanation. consciousness cannot account for itself. that has nothing to do with gotg.
God of the gaps
quote:nope. Science will never be able to explain things like identity, perception, qualia, origins, purpose, destiny, mind/body dualism, events during and before the planck era, etc. The reason why is because the laws of physics/science don't even apply to these phenomena. Heck, science can't even handle simple routine phenomena like why we can't tickle ourselves, tip of the tongue syndrome, deja vu, out of body experiences, etc.
Implies that if humans can't know it, then God.
what you're implying is called scientism which is a very shaky idea. science operates within the bounds of methodological naturalism and we know that there is much to life outside of those boundaries so, expecting that one day everything will be reduced to the language of science is pretty naive.
honestly, the discussion isn't going to advance much if you're going to respond with these amateurish, popular level retorts.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:14 pm to BamaAtl
quote:that's not the purpose or even a side effect of string theory that i am aware of. the question can always be asked where "strings" came from or why there is something rather than nothing. it just kicks the can down the road
as he was asking for a potential scientific explanation for infinite existence....string theory explains it.
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