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re: The church is dying. The killer is the government
Posted on 5/7/14 at 12:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 5/7/14 at 12:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:That is the statement of an agnostic. It is equally unfriendly to beliefs of theists and atheists alike
Credulity and faith are interchangeable when faith is placed in something with minimal evidence. You believe because you want it to be true. By definition, any such belief is credulous whether it is true or not.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 12:30 pm
1
Posted on 5/7/14 at 1:07 pm to rcocke2
quote:
Your statement seems to confirm your misunderstanding of science and its limitations.
Science absolutely has limitations, as do our senses. That doesn't change the fact that believing in something outside of them that cannot be sensed, felt or observed in any tangible way requires a DESIRE to believe such a thing. The desire to believe regardless of the level of reason for that belief is the definition of credulity. It has nothing to do with whether or not the belief is true.
quote:
Do you mistake the absence of evidence for the evidence of absence?
No, this has nothing to do with whether God actually exists or not.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 1:10 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
That is the statement of an agnostic. It is equally unfriendly to beliefs of theists and atheists alike
Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive as they describe two different qualities. Most atheists are also agnostics.
Moreover, given that atheism is by definition a lack of belief in an unobservable concept it cannot be considered credulous. Otherwise, we would have to call everyone who lacks a faith in fairies, minotaurs and Thor as credulous as well.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 1:49 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
given that atheism is by definition a lack of belief in an unobservable
Because something can not be observed, it is foolish to believe that it exists? This is what I mean by mistaking lack of evidence for evidence of absence, or in this case, non-existence. That's just bad science
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:09 pm to rcocke2
quote:
Because something can not be observed, it is foolish to believe that it exists?
Not merely not observed, but not sensed in ANY form or fashion. And as I've said several times it isn't foolish or delusional to dogmatically believe in such a thing, it's simply credulous.
quote:
This is what I mean by mistaking lack of evidence for evidence of absence, or in this case, non-existence.
You are using silly Christian apologetic arguments in places where they have no meaning. This is completely irrelevant here, because this isn't about whether God actually exists or not.
quote:
That's just bad science
It isn't science at all, because science cant speak to the concept of God. Science cant speak to existence of an infinite number of things humans could conceive of.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 3:00 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
It isn't science at all, because science cant speak to the concept of God
Exactly what I said, but in general, philosophical terms. Also, this is no silly Christian apologetic argument, as you say. This argument for God from Skepticism or Empiricism, if you like, was used by the Greeks, well before Christ, and later by Enlightenment era Europeans like Blaise Pascal.
Muslim scholars also vehemently argued this point. See Al-Ghazali, Averroes, etc. Epistemology is not some new concept.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 3:02 pm to rcocke2
I dont know who you're arguing against, because it isnt me.
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