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Started By
Message
re: Taxpayer dollars stolen - 93 billion in 72 days after losing the election
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:45 pm to billjamin
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:45 pm to billjamin
quote:
DOE has solid portfolio performance from this program even with some of the disasters like Solyndra.
Correct
If anything we aren't taking enough risk and should be increasing the magnitude of the loan program
2
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:47 pm to Powerman
quote:
If anything we aren't taking enough risk and should be increasing the magnitude of the loan program
It’s usually loaded with blue chips like Ford, Tesla, utility companies, etc. the risk profile is too strict and that’s reflected in the default rates being below targets. It’s also why you don’t let politicians do finance bro things. They’re really bad at it.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:48 pm to Powerman
quote:well, one of them is Rivian who makes luxury EVs. He gave them 7 billion to finish their factory in GA even though the state of GA had already given them 1.5 billion in incentives.
Some of them certainly add benefit to the power grid and EV vehicle production and all of them create jobs
Sound reasoning to pursue the expansion of EV usage in the US.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:50 pm to I20goon
quote:
well, one of them is Rivian who makes luxury EVs. He gave them 7 billion to finish their factory in GA even though the state of GA had already given them 1.5 billion in incentives.
Sound reasoning to pursue the expansion of EV usage in the US.
Do you think they'll be unable to repay the loan?
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:53 pm to Powerman
quote:ok, the other question you CAN'T answer: What is this loan program's history and is the last 3 mos. of Biden presidency a departure?
Correct
If anything we aren't taking enough risk and should be increasing the magnitude of the loan program
The LPO was formed in the Bush (second) administration in 2003 with first disbursements happening later. Since 2003 $42 billion in loans have been given out to the tune of $0.25 billion per month average.
Biden averaged $31 billion per month.
quote:wrong question which highlights your, personal, issue. Should a luxury EV maker get billions in loans, especially on top of tax breaks and other incentives is the real question.
Do you think they'll be unable to repay the loan?
Are you really this stupid or did your parents put you in the ceiling fan as a child because they liked the noise it made? (or did someone give you some talking points and told you what to say)
This post was edited on 5/11/25 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:55 pm to I20goon
quote:
Since 2003 $42 billion in loans have been given out to the tune of $0.25 billion per month average.
And Tesla alone is close to a trillion dollar market cap company now meaning we have seriously under utilized the program given its massive successes
quote:
Biden averaged $31 billion per month.
His only failure was not deploying this earlier in his administration
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:58 pm to Powerman
quote:
Biden averaged $31 billion per month.
quote:Then explain 8 years of Obama in that average (8 of 14 years of the program... I'll help: 57%)
His only failure was not deploying this earlier in his administration
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:59 pm to Powerman
quote:
And Tesla alone is close to a trillion dollar market cap company now meaning we have seriously under utilized the program given its massive successes
That doesn’t follow at all.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 5:59 pm to I20goon
Were you similarly outraged when Ford got 5.9B to develop the eco boost?
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:01 pm to Powerman
quote:
even though these are loans
Sure they are.
Puerto Rico is def gonna pay their loan back. Also the Indian tribe.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:04 pm to billjamin
quote:wasn't a fan of that either.
Were you similarly outraged when Ford got 5.9B to develop the eco boost?
This is indeed payoffs for political support. Not a market economy argument. So EcoBoost is irrelevant.
Powerman just want's to push the talking point this is good stuff and done all the time.
I agree, it is done all the time as political payoffs (sometimes virtue signaling) and when they try to claw back these so-called 'loans' a Fed district judge will block it.
Yes, I am outraged over theft supported by the judiciary from the US taxpayers.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:06 pm to the808bass
quote:
Puerto Rico is def gonna pay their loan bac
The one project is a JV between AES and Total. I think they’ll be paying their bills.
The other is a loan guarantee and not direct deployment so they only backstop defaults beyond the defined limits in the deal. Also I think very little of that ever got deployed because the primary company behind is it is in bankruptcy.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:08 pm to billjamin
quote:you don't say. That wasn't predictable at all.
Also I think very little of that ever got deployed because the primary company behind is it is in bankruptcy.
Lemme guess... they went bankrupt due to high executive and board salaries that just so happened to jump right about that time? Maybe?
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:10 pm to the808bass
quote:
That doesn’t follow at all.
Tesla paid back their loans and formed a trillion dollar net worth company that employs over 120K people in the U.S. with good paying jobs. That was from a 465 million dollar loan that got them started. That's an incredible ROI for the federal government and taxpayers considering how much tax revenue it creates
You could very well make the argument that we're being too conservative and not taking enough risk with this program.
I don't think people understand just how important energy infrastructure is at the moment
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:11 pm to I20goon
quote:
Lemme guess... they went bankrupt due to high executive and board salaries that just so happened to jump right about that time? Maybe?
Not really they just had way too much opex. Their execs made good money. But that doesn’t really have much to do with this since they got zero dollars.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:13 pm to I20goon
quote:
you don't say. That wasn't predictable at all.
Lemme guess... they went bankrupt due to high executive and board salaries that just so happened to jump right about that time? Maybe?
These loans saved Tesla from going bankrupt
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:18 pm to Powerman
quote:
These loans saved Tesla from going bankrupt
This wasn’t even a loan to the company. It was a guarantee to back the consumers loan. Basically it was investor protection for high risk consumer loans. DOE spent zero dollars and if they ever do it goes to the capital partners, not the asset manager.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:36 pm to Powerman
quote:False.
These loans saved Tesla from going bankrupt
When Tesla faced bankruptcy during the whole 2008 crisis/recession what saved them was Elon Musk putting personal money behind it. It was called "Musk's Christmas Miracle"
And yes, they did get plenty of grants from Obama administration.... after that.
Posted on 5/11/25 at 6:42 pm to LSUnation78
Anyone that took these and doesn’t pay them back should be executed
Posted on 5/11/25 at 10:43 pm to Big4SALTbro
quote:
Anyone that took these and doesn’t pay them back should be executed
Why would you expect them to default on the loans?
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