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Started By
Message
re: Tariffs are simply taxes
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:01 pm to Ten Bears
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:01 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
Just spitballing… why don’t we just reduce taxes and not have tarrifs?
In a perfect world I would love it. But we have trade deals to make and I’m pretty sick of getting fricked over. Reciprocity.
0
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
Melt bitch.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:04 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
But they are excise taxes
Excise taxes are more like European value added taxes. Excise taxes are taxes on goods like beer, wine, spirits, gasoline, diesel, cigarettes, etc.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:06 pm to stuntman
quote:Right.
How'd they come up w/ that number? Is that just first order effects, or did they account for all the costs being risen down the line until it gets to the person who bought the product?
Legit interested. If you have a link I can check out, that would be great.
For starters, aside from subsidy, tax policy, etc, which were all employed, China devalued the RMB 10%, as the US increased tariffs from 10% to 25%.
Effects of a 10% currency devaluation on the 15% tariff delta?
A $100 widget (630 RMB) + 15% added tariff should cost $115
However
Given an RMB to USD devaluation of 7.0 RMB to the USD, now a 630 RMB widget is only $90 in USD
A $90 widget (630 RMB) + 15% added tariff ($13.5) = $103.5
So of the $13.5 tariff, the US consumer exposure is only $3.5 of it.
This post was edited on 2/1/25 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:07 pm to Marquesa
quote:
It's deeper than that. It's a revenue generating mechanism that forces foreign companies to open factories in the US.
Like solar and steel? Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:11 pm to billjamin
quote:I mean, no one is going to invest billions with a 20+ year payback that's dependent solely on a tariff that a president can wipe away with the stroke of a pen at any moment. Hell, even Trump didn't consistely implement his "tariffs" last go round. Lot of threats, followed by lots of delays, followed by... nothing going into effect.
It will take more than just tariffs for most industries to bring manufacturing back to the US. It’ll also take incentive packages to further offset the increased expenses.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:13 pm to cornerstore
quote:
Yes dumbfrick. We are trying to trade income taxes for tariffs.
You should learn to do some basic math before calling anyone "dumbfrick". You'd need about a 200% tariff on all goods to come close to this. Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:15 pm to Guntoter1
quote:Try buying domestically produced TV, clothes, etc and get back to us.
Yes.. BUT… tariffs let ME decided which ones I will pay and which ones I will not.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:17 pm to Taxing Authority
I do have to chuckle a bit when the anti tariff crowd uses the loss of manufacturing capacity/ability in the US as a reason for tariffs being bad.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:19 pm to stuntman
quote:
If you have a more productive workforce, which we used to have, then you can pay 3 or 4 times what the other labor costs are in those other countries and earn way more in profits.
No. You'd need productivity that was 10-20x foreign workers to compete on equivalent wages. And that's not accounting for of the additional costs like lawsuits, regulatory compliance, insurance benefits, and on, and on. And that's provided you can even locate workers. Try hiring for a garment factory sometime and see how it goes.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:21 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Excise taxes are taxes on goods like beer, wine, spirits, gasoline, diesel, cigarettes, etc.
which are indirect to the consumer, usually paid by the businesses and passed on to the consumers that purchase those goods.
I suppose im missing the work "like" before excise tax, because obviously they arent the same thing.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:21 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I'll never understand why people are surprised that the country with teh strongest currency on the planet has a trade deficit.
The trade deficit is the differential. Additionally, countries who enjoy a trade surplus are oft motivated to offset some or all tariff costs to assist their own economies.
I mean... why *wouldn't* we have a trade deficit? It would be silly not to.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:22 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
You should learn to do some basic math before calling anyone "dumbfrick". You'd need about a 200% tariff on all goods to come close to this.
assuming we want the same amount of money going to the government....we dont.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:25 pm to Ten Bears
quote:"We need tariffs to stop the import of foreign goods and protect our workers!" same people: "We need to fund the entire government by taxing the import of foreign goods!". It never gets old.
The math doesn’t work. To fund the fed govt at current levels, you’d have to impose tariffs of 175-200%. And of course, that would assume imports would stay at their current levels, which they would not. But I’m sure you know this because your economic prowess is so obvious.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:26 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
That's a good point. All the people against the tariffs truly are myopic. They think tariffs exist in a vacuum. Their little brains can't comprehend more than 1 variable. Their arguments are devoid of any concept of increased wages, purchasing power, alternative products, manufacturing power, national security.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:30 pm to Ten Bears
quote:You are responding to something other than my post.
So to replace income taxes, we are looking at tarrifs in alll imports of 60-80%.
To replace corporate taxes, we would require tariffs of 12-18%.
In terms of Corporate Taxes, let's address my post which specified cutting corporate tax in half. Okay? Now run your tariff numbers on that premise.
But I'll toss you some red meat:
This really is not that complicated. As you say, we imported roughly $3.3 trillion in 2022. We concomitantly exported roughly $2.1 trillion that year. In simple terms, if we tariff EVERYTHING at 25%, and they retaliate at 25% on US exports, we bring in $300 billion in additional revenue.
Economically, the problem for the rest of the world is access to the US consumer market is paramount. Whereas exports comprise only ~7% of our economy in toto. So there is significant incentive to eat tariff costs, or shift manufacturing into the US.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:31 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
payback that's dependent solely on a tariff that a president can wipe away with the stroke of a pen at any moment
Exactly
They would need permanent subsidies.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:33 pm to Hester Carries
quote:Well, I suppose you could campaign on repealing social security. You might get 10s of votes. Maybe.
assuming we want the same amount of money going to the government....we dont.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:34 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Economically, the problem for the rest of the world is access to the US consumer market is paramount. Whereas exports comprise only ~7% of our economy in toto.
This right here.
All the talk of rising prices and economic disaster is merely a distraction from the true purpose of tariffs: forcing other nations to comply with our demands.
Posted on 2/1/25 at 7:36 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:And a large supply of cheap manual labor. Wonder where that would come from? Hmm.... anyone have any ideas?
They would need permanent subsidies.
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