re: Talarico’s Pastor Says Jesus Didn’t Die For Sins, Slanders Virgin Mary

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You literally quoted the part where I did.

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I'm confused. Are you referring to the Proverbs 9:10?

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You're just a liar and not worth the time.

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I'm not lying. You seem to be a poor communicator and I'm trying to understand you to make sure I can respond appropriately. You keep calling me a liar without cause.

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All you have to do is read the last posts of the thread.

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I read your last several posts and still didn't find any explanation of the verse from Proverbs 9. All you said was firsthand knowledge of the holy one is knowledge, which is as close as I could find to an explanation of the verse. Is that all you were referring to?

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And you are a liar. You had no idea that verse existed in any form and you continue to claim otherwise.

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OK, I'm going to have to now call you a liar because I've corrected you multiple times now. I've read that verse multiple times in the ESV and NKVJ (and seen it multiple times in other versions), but not in the KJV. You need to repent for calling me a liar when I am not lying.

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You asked me to prove you cherry picking, I did. You purposely ignored it and now you're just flailing.

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no.. that wasn't an example of me cherry-picking. That was me not understanding your statement.

You had said that I gave a list of verses that were cherry-picked, and I asked you to demonstrate that just one of them was cherry-picked. You keep referencing the proverb that you quoted, and now you're saying that's an example. Try again.

Give me an example of a verse that I've cherry-picked to prove my point or refute yours that doesn't say what I've said it says.

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The extra word does not change the meaning at all. And it shouldn't have mattered to begin with.

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It doesn't change the meaning if you mean that fear and knowing the Lord grants knowledge, which is what the verse is saying.

You keep ignoring what I said: within the context of what you have been saying, I assumed you meant something else by it. You've provided a lot of gnostic false teaching here and I thought that was a reference to more of the same, because you said it out of context and without explanation.

The missing word can certainly change its meaning depending on how you meant it, and since you keep butchering the Bible, I assumed you meant something else by it.

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You're trying to claim you knew what "Knowledge of the holy one is understanding", but didn't know "Knowledge of the holy is understanding".

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Go back and re-read what I've written. I've explained myself multiple times. Your poor communication combined with your heretical gnostic views and beliefs led me to assume you were talking about something else. You did not indicate you were quoting a Bible verse, nor did you quote it in the form I am familiar with, and therefore I assumed you were providing another statement that was intended to support your perverse beliefs.

I already admitted that I was wrong in my understanding of what you were saying due to an ignorance of a translation gap on my part, but instead of accepting that and moving on, you keep calling me a liar.

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You're just a dishonest person and you aren't worth the time. Lie to peoples face and then try to gaslight them over it.

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You are the one who is dishonest, and you continue to demonstrate it over and over again. I admitted my mistake, which is more than you have done. When you've been proven wrong, you just ignore it and move on to something else.

Have some integrity.

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I pointed out your abuse of Mark 10 and the word ransom while ignoring all the context and things said within the same chapter.

Now, go frick yourself.

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OK, thank you for the clarification. You were talking about Mark 10. Your profanity aside, I'll explain how it was not cherry-picked.

Within the immediate context, Jesus was responding to His disciples, who were wanting to know who would be exalted in heaven. Jesus warned them that they should not seek to be exalted, but to serve others. He then went on to say that He, Himself, came not to be served by others, but to serve others. The example He provides is that He came to die for others. Verse 45 says He came to "give His life as a ransom for many". This same story and quote about giving His life for a ransom is paralleled in Matthew 20.

Whatever giving His life for a ransom means, it was said within the context of serving others. On its face, it seems to indicate that He would die for others as a ransom. To help us see what is meant, we can look at the larger context of Scripture.

A ransom was a payment given to set others free in some sense. The biblical record describes ransom as a payment for life, whether temporal or eternal. Some examples:

Ex. 21:28-30: A man's life is owed because he didn't deal with an animal that's gored someone in the past, and it winds up killing someone. The man must pay a ransom price to save his life; money so that he can live.

1 Sam. 14:45: Saul made a rash vow that anyone who eats until evening on that day will die. His son, Jonathan, didn't hear it and so he ate some honey. Jonathan's life was to be forfeit, but in verse 45, we see that the people made a ransom for Jonathan's life, so that he didn't have to die.

Ps. 49:7-8, 15: David speaks of the inevitability of death, and how no mere man can ransom another man's life to keep him from dying, but he goes on to say that God will ransom his life from the power of death/Sheol, so that God will receive David. This is another example where a ransom is made for life, but in this case, only God can provide ransom for the soul.

Hos. 13:14: Similar to Ps. 49, here God is speaking of redeeming and ransoming Israel from the power of death/Sheol. The language of ransom and redemption is speaking to purchasing or satisfying a price for something, and in this case, it's redemption from the power of death. In New Testament language, this is confirmed as eternal salvation, and salvation from damnation.

Now, going back to what Jesus said: He came to give His life for a ransom for many. The larger context is that He is speaking of ransoming the lives of others. Either He is speaking of temporal redemption, or eternal redemption (or both). Given that there are no verses that speak to anyone in literal, temporal prison that Jesus' life could set free, it must be a spiritual and eternal prison that Jesus is referring to. This is supported by several verses that Jesus speaks of as granting eternal life.

Aside from Mark 10 and its parallel passage in Matthew 20, we also read in Revelation 5:9 where the angels are singing the praises of Jesus, saying “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation". Here we see a confirmation that Jesus paid a ransom price with His mortal, human life. In other words, His death accomplished a ransom by paying a price to set souls free.

This is affirmed by Paul (rather than contradicted) and Peter. Peter says this in 1 Peter 1:18-19, where he says that Christians are ransomed by the blood of Jesus (speaking of His death), and that He was raised from the dead. Paul says as much in 1 Timothy 2:6, where he says that Jesus gave His life as a ransom.

So now you have it: Jesus said that He gave His life as a ransom for many, which in the biblical concept, is speaking of Him giving His life as a price to be paid for the lives of others. His blood bought or purchased life for His people. He wasn't merely showing people a way to save themselves through obedience, but the very act of His death paid the price for those who believe in Him.

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OK, thank you for the clarification. You were talking about Mark 10. Your profanity aside, I'll explain how it was not cherry-picked.

Within the immediate context, Jesus was responding to His disciples, who were wanting to know who would be exalted in heaven. Jesus warned them that they should not seek to be exalted, but to serve others. He then went on to say that He, Himself, came not to be served by others, but to serve others. The example He provides is that He came to die for others. Verse 45 says He came to "give His life as a ransom for many". This same story and quote about giving His life for a ransom is paralleled in Matthew 20.

Whatever giving His life for a ransom means, it was said within the context of serving others. On its face, it seems to indicate that He would die for others as a ransom. To help us see what is meant, we can look at the larger context of Scripture.

A ransom was a payment given to set others free in some sense. The biblical record describes ransom as a payment for life, whether temporal or eternal. Some examples:

Ex. 21:28-30: A man's life is owed because he didn't deal with an animal that's gored someone in the past, and it winds up killing someone. The man must pay a ransom price to save his life; money so that he can live.

1 Sam. 14:45: Saul made a rash vow that anyone who eats until evening on that day will die. His son, Jonathan, didn't hear it and so he ate some honey. Jonathan's life was to be forfeit, but in verse 45, we see that the people made a ransom for Jonathan's life, so that he didn't have to die.

Ps. 49:7-8, 15: David speaks of the inevitability of death, and how so mere man can ransom another man's life to keep him from dying, but he goes on to say that God will ransom his life from the power of death/Sheol, so that God will receive David. This is another example where a ransom is made for life, but in this case, only God can provide ransom for the soul.

Hos. 13:14: Similar to Ps. 49, here God is speaking of redeeming and ransoming Israel from the power of death/Sheol. The language of ransom and redemption is speaking to purchasing or satisfying a price for something, and in this case, it's redemption from the power of death. In New Testament language, this is confirmed as eternal salvation, and salvation from damnation.

Now, going back to what Jesus said: He came to give His life for a ransom for many. The larger context is that He is speaking of ransoming the lives of others. Either He is speaking of temporal redemption, or eternal redemption (or both). Given that there are no verses that speak to anyone in literal, temporal prison that Jesus' life could set free, it must be a spiritual and eternal prison that Jesus is referring to. This is supported by several verses that Jesus speaks of as granting eternal life.

Aside from Mark 10 and its parallel passage in Matthew 20, we also read in Revelation 5:9 where the angels are singing the praises of Jesus, saying “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation". Here we see a confirmation that Jesus paid a ransom price with His mortal, human life. In other words, His death accomplished a ransom by paying a price to set souls free.

This is affirmed by Paul (rather than contradicted) and Peter. Peter says this in 1 Peter 1:18-19, where he says that Christians are ransomed by the blood of Jesus (speaking of His death), and that He was raised from the dead. Paul says as much in 1 Timothy 2:6, where he says that Jesus gave His life as a ransom.

So now you have it: Jesus said that He gave His life as a ransom for many, which in the biblical concept, is speaking of Him giving His life as a price to be paid for the lives of others. His blood bought or purchased life for His people. He wasn't merely showing people a way to save themselves through obedience, but the very act of His death paid the price for those who believe in Him.

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You are once again cherry picking verses and ignoring the fact that in Mark 10 Jesus turns the rich man away and tells him the opposite of what you claim.

good question?

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what? I spent quite a bit of time explaining exactly what each verse means within context. You are clearly not a serious person. You just default to saying I’m cherry-picking and not providing any reason to support your assertion. Deal with the claims.

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You cherry picked a bunch of verses out of context.

You should have been able to support your points within the same chapter. Yet not a single other verse from it.

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I already explained what Jesus did. He knew the man’s heart and that he wasn’t interested in following Jesus. He set a trap for him by telling him to follow the law and then showing that he couldn’t even follow the first commandment.

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If he had told the rich man of the free gift that was coming the rich man could have easily accepted.

PERIOD.

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You cherry picked a bunch of verses out of context.

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Provide an example and an explanation of how just one verse was out of context in that previous post.

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You should have been able to support your points within the same chapter. Yet not a single other verse from it.

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I did. I explained what a ransom was from the Bible’s usage of the word and showed how Jesus was saying, in Mark 10, how He was referring to giving His life as a payment for the lives of others.

If you think that was a wrong exegesis, you need to explain what “ransom” means from the Bible’s usage of it.

And no, I don’t knot have to use that context of that chapter. The entire Bible is intended to be context for itself, which is why I quoted from several different passages from all over the Bible. Again, you need to explain what Jesus means by a ransom given how the Bible uses the word.

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If he had told the rich man of the free gift that was coming the rich man could have easily accepted.

PERIOD.

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No he couldn’t. Jesus taught elsewhere that only those given to Him by the Father can believe (accept the free gift). Jesus knew that this man’s God was his wealth, and he didn’t take Jesus up in the offer of following after Him. He couldn’t and wouldn’t believe, so Jesus answered the fool according to his folly.

I'm not goign to keep arguing with your dumbass over it.

If you can't support the text within Mark10 it's because you are ignoring the context and applying your own meaning.

Especially when the actual message of Mark 10 is that you must keep the commandments, which is what was asked of the rich man.

You simply claim Jesus lied to the rich man and/or mislead the rich man in order to invalidate the entire chapter and then you cherry pick verses from other parts of the bible to support that.

You are a liar and you do the one thing that is unforgivable.