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re: Statues of Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth II have been toppled in Canada
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:33 pm to Burt Reynolds
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:33 pm to Burt Reynolds
quote:
Australia
I meant with regard to Africa specifically.
I can name a few that certainly weren't designed to "civilize" Africans.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:33 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The CFA franc system is a very overt way of propping up the French economy. It also explains much of France's geopolitical interest.
Let’s hear how you think the CFA is propping up the French economy.
quote:
Give me an example of a success from European colonization.
The United States, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay, Peru, Ecuador, Belize, Australia, New Zealand …
.
quote:
The issues of Egypt are different from the issues of Kenya, and trying to talk about them in a way that is accurate for both is not possible.
No shite. And yet none of them are functioning, stable states. But Lol at your gotcha attempt— no one is talking about Egypt or the other long standing North African states when discussing the total futility of Africa as a whole—or when discussing how none of the national states comprising Africa would have the infrastructure they current possess without their evil European benefactors. But by all means, Europeans are evil. Had the 80% of Africa south of the Sahara simply been left alone, it would thrive, right?
quote:
European colonial interaction was a net negative for pretty much every place that suffered under colonialism, including places like India, which seemingly recovered
Hahhhhahahahahahahahahahahagahahahahahahahahaha
quote:
And I really want to know what functioning governmental institution these Europeans bequeathed onto the Africans?
The entire concept of the centralized state was foreign to most of Africa until the Europeans arrived. If you can’t even admit that the mere concept of the nation-state brought Africa forward about 3,000 years, then it’s not worth discussing.
This post was edited on 7/2/21 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:42 pm to Wildcat1996
quote:
So what is it then? Why did colonized places like India, Canada, Indonesia, and Taiwan grow into GDP powerhouses while others did not?
Adherence to and acceptance of general ideals of the nation-state, western principles of economics, and state investment in infrastructure.
The former colonies (most of Africa, with limited examples elsewhere) that chose to make it their national mission to remove all remnants of those systems effectively reverted themselves back in time.
This post was edited on 7/2/21 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:43 pm to Wildcat1996
quote:
I'll just say it. The anti-colonialism sentiment is tired. Many parts of the colonized world have done well.
It might be tired to you, but it is still extremely meaningful to the places that were colonized, in an overt way. Anti-colonial sentiment drives Indian foreign policy in a very direct way, and you can even read anti-colonial sentiment in some of Xi's recent statements. The desire to avoid being dominated again by foreign powers plays a massive role in the geopolitics of even places like Turkey and Iran, which weren't technically colonized. That fact seems lost on most people who don't follow geopolitics, but it is a very consistent theme.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:46 pm to Burt Reynolds
quote:
Russia was stronger under communism than they were Tsar Nicholas.
But also a whole lot more evil and oppressive to its people.
And that was and still is a feature of communism, not a bug.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:46 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Anti-colonial sentiment drives Indian foreign policy in a very direct way, and you can even read anti-colonial sentiment in some of Xi's recent statements. The desire to avoid being dominated again by foreign powers plays a massive role in the geopolitics of even places like Turkey and Iran, which weren't technically colonized. That fact seems lost on most people who don't follow geopolitics, but it is a very consistent theme.
Once again, no shite. That doesn’t make their emotional positions correct.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 4:57 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
That’s some sad Taliban shite right there. This thread proves that white people are stupid as shite too.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:00 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Let’s hear how you think the CFA is propping up the French economy.
You understand that the arrangement requires them to hold exchange reserves in the French treasury, pegs the CFA franc to the Franc (now the Euro) at a fixed exchange rate, and at one time buttressed the Franc's value versus other currencies which were used more often to settle balance of payments. Also included in the system is the ability of French companies to move their capital with little risk, since in effect France decides the economic policy of the region. Don't take my word for it. See what the French say about the arrangement.
quote:
The United States, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador, Belize, Australia, New Zealand …
I mean an institutional success from Africa. And It is absolutely hilarious you included some random South American countries.
quote:
No shite. And yet none of them are functioning, stable states. But Lol at your gotcha attempt— no one is talking about Egypt or the other long standing North African states when discussing the total futility of Africa as a whole—or when discussing how none of the national states comprising Africa would have the infrastructure they current possess without their evil European benefactors. But by all means, Europeans are evil. Had the 80% of Africa south of the Sahara simply been left alone, it would thrive, right?
Did you miss my point about discussing Africa as a whole? And you are really overestimating how much infrastructure the Europeans built in Africa. I'm certainly not suggesting that Africa would "thrive," but I can point to specific instances of European "institutions" which were not meant to help anyone but the small group in power.
quote:
Hahhhhahahahahahahahahahahagahahahahahahahahaha
Again, you don't seem to know very much about colonialism.
quote:
The entire concept of the centralized state was foreign to most of Africa until the Europeans arrived. If you can’t even admit that the mere concept of the nation-state brought Africa forward about 3,000 years, then it’s not worth discussing.
The entire concept of a centralized state was foreign to most of the world too, even states in Europe, such as Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans, which were imperial states which were in the early stages of industrialization, with GDP figures that reflect that fact. I'm still waiting for a specific institution that benefitted Africans to the degree that you think.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:01 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Once again, no shite. That doesn’t make their emotional positions correct.
Who said it did? I certainly didn't say it. That they will view the West with distrust by virtue of their history is an utterly benign suggestion that, oddly, people are taking very emotionally.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:05 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
A huge portion of the founding fathers and Revolutionary patriots were ready to crown Washington king after the Treaty of Paris.
That’s precisely what we should’ve done.
George Washington is widely and correctly considered the hero father of this nation, we should’ve given him a Crown befitting that status and his descendants reigning as Sovereign in the present day would’ve been a great permanent reminder of who led the brave, noble and heroic charge to build this country.
It’s a high honor he deserved and one he should’ve accepted.
And I say that as someone who sees value in the idea of separating the head of state role away from the head of government.
This post was edited on 7/2/21 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:18 pm to crazy4lsu
I appreciate your thoughtful response.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:21 pm to Indefatigable
I have said this earlier in the thread, albeit more crypticly.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:27 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
I absolutely hate everybody under the age of 45. I hope they all starve to death when my Gen X dies off and no longer supports their sorry asses,
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:35 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
That they will view the West with distrust by virtue of their history is an utterly benign suggestion that, oddly, people are taking very emotionally.
Everyone already understands and knows this.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:38 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I'm still waiting for a specific institution that benefitted Africans to the degree that you think.
I can’t. There was nothing. You are right.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:38 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Everyone already understands and knows this.
Lol.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:42 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Again, you don't seem to know very much about colonialism.
Incorrect, I just don’t consider it to be the bain of the world’s existence, or an excuse for the abject shittiness/ineptitude of the places at issue.
This post was edited on 7/2/21 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:45 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
I can’t. There was nothing. You are right.
That you can't seemingly name one at all is odd, given how confident you are in the matter, and how confident you are in the notion that colonialism was universally beneficial, which isn't what the Indians themselves, or any group of colonized peoples, were saying. Certain groups did gain advantages (for example, Muslim landowners in North India were occasionally favored by the British, and eventually their farms were expropriated by the Indian government), but there are so few colonial holdovers that have had any positive effect. One of the go-to answers was the system of taxation in Zimbabwe, which was directly modeled on the colonial one, but using Zimbabwe as an example makes people emotional. And there is good reason why, for example, infrastructure was hard to build in certain places, like outside the Niger basin, but I'll leave it to you, the expert on development (obviously) to figure out the why.
Posted on 7/2/21 at 5:50 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Incorrect, I just don’t consider it to be the bain of the world’s existence, or an excuse for the abject shittiness/ineptitude of the places at issue.
You seem to be assuming quite a bit here. There are legitimate reasons for a lack of development directly related to colonialism, but again, people become intensely emotional about the mere reference. It becomes a sinister way of shutting down discussion, or moving it to other causes.
There are also reasons that are entirely unrelated, and are due to other things, like endemic disease, which are still prevalent in Africa, and is one of the major reasons why West Africa developed farming later than other regions, because headwind patterns on the Niger basin only changed around 3000 BC, which allowed settlement, as before, parasites made the region uninhabitable for humans.
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