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Message
re: Statues in NOLA are coming down.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:47 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:47 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
Good. Statues celebrating treason to the United States of America should should be taken down.
They weren't a United States of America. They were a divided states of Union and Confederate variety.
You people act like this very country wasn't birthed in rebellion and a desire for self government of their own liking.
You people act like you know absolutely nothing of who we are.
1
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:49 pm to tarzana
quote:
That was a game changer for relations between North and South, between whites and persons of color, between Republicans and Democrats. America will never be the same again.
Melodramatic much? Only in your head will America never be the same again. Maybe you need a checkup from the neck up.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:55 pm to coonasswhodat
quote:
For the life of me, I can't/don't understand the love of a man that went to war against the United States of America. I would donate my time and labor in helping rid my birthplace of this blight, if given the opportunity.
There's not much demand for ignorant ditchdiggers.
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:56 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Lincoln delivered to the Congress on 12/1/62 a Special Address. We would now call this the State of the Union Address. The address covered revenues, industrial output, relations with other nations. You can find the whole thing online. it is many pages long.
But his concluding remarks, delivered 30 days before the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect, are, I think, the most brilliant thing he wrote.
"Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just -- a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless."
Pretty awesome. Anything at cross purposes to these sentiments, like statues of anyone who opposed the lawful government, might look good crushed up to make a break water or levee.
But his concluding remarks, delivered 30 days before the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect, are, I think, the most brilliant thing he wrote.
"Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just -- a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless."
Pretty awesome. Anything at cross purposes to these sentiments, like statues of anyone who opposed the lawful government, might look good crushed up to make a break water or levee.
This post was edited on 3/7/17 at 9:57 pm
Posted on 3/7/17 at 10:08 pm to WhiskeyPapa
When do the book burnings begin?
Posted on 3/7/17 at 10:17 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Nearly a decade later, even as he edited the draft of the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation in August of 1862, Lincoln hosted a delegation of freed slaves at the White House in the hopes of getting their support on a plan for colonization in Central America. Given the “differences” between the two races and the hostile attitudes of whites towards blacks, Lincoln argued, it would be “better for us both, therefore, to be separated.” Lincoln’s support of colonization provoked great anger among black leaders
In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites.
He once wrote, “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery.”
In 1858, he said,“…I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.”
on Aug. 14, 1862, Lincoln invited free Black ministers to the White House to have a conversation. Lincoln did not hesitate to convince them of their inferiority when he candidly said the following: “You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them, by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated.”
In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites.
He once wrote, “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery.”
In 1858, he said,“…I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.”
on Aug. 14, 1862, Lincoln invited free Black ministers to the White House to have a conversation. Lincoln did not hesitate to convince them of their inferiority when he candidly said the following: “You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them, by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated.”
Posted on 3/7/17 at 11:19 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:Instead of taking arms against the US, why not just get the frick out and pick a fight with somebody else?
You people act like this very country wasn't birthed in rebellion and a desire for self government of their own liking.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:02 am to ballscaster
quote:
Instead of taking arms against the US, why not just get the frick out and pick a fight with somebody else?
They tried that, but Lincoln mustered troops to invade the south. Sumpter was nothing more than a provocation used to excuse hostilities, but truth be known, secession was the real reason. No sovereign nation could possibly be taken seriously and still have a foreign nation garrisoned on it's soil. The South knew it, but more importantly, Lincoln knew it, and he knew they knew it all to well. It's not the reason for hostilities however. The real reason was King Cotton, the chief domestic product, the fossil fuel of it's day so to speak. Losing the south would have proven devastating for the Union economically short and long term.
Read your history. It will serve you well.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 12:04 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:04 am to MorgusTheMagnificent
For all the whining about "snow flakes" and asking "why do the statues matter" there sure seems to be a lot folks in this thread triggered by some old statues being removed.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 12:05 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:08 am to TankCommander
quote:
Bet you thought Gen Sherman was a great general because he won his battles, right????
Yeah the cause also matters- Rommel was a pretty great general who like Lee was brought low by superior logistics and numbers but you don't see people rocking Afrika Corps regalia or rallying around memorials to the Field Marshal.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 12:09 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:09 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Also there are statues of Lee at West Point too. Ironically, he was the commandant there...
Isn't there a Sherman memorial or statue on the campus of LSU?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:34 am to corneredbeast
quote:
physically prevent the removal, and show the rest of the country what real civil disobedience looks like.
Should happen, but won't. The people who are for keeping the statues are generally good people with too much to lose to protest like a bunch of SJW's. We have jobs, families, etc. those who protest like sub-humans generally don't have those considerations to worry about.
That's really a good summary of what's wrong with the country today. The producers have too much at stake to cause a stir, yet those that survive on the government teet have no qualms about biting the hand that feeds them.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:02 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Sumpter was nothing more than a provocation used to excuse hostilities
You people are getting craftier with the revisions, I'll give you that.
frick the Confederacy. They shouldn't have attempted to secede. It was dumb.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:18 am to weagle99
quote:
Nearly a decade later, even as he edited the draft of the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation in August of 1862, Lincoln hosted a delegation of freed slaves at the White House in the hopes of getting their support on a plan for colonization in Central America. Given the “differences” between the two races and the hostile attitudes of whites towards blacks, Lincoln argued, it would be “better for us both, therefore, to be separated.” Lincoln’s support of colonization provoked great anger among black leaders In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites. He once wrote, “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery.” In 1858, he said,“…I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.” on Aug. 14, 1862, Lincoln invited free Black ministers to the White House to have a conversation. Lincoln did not hesitate to convince them of their inferiority when he candidly said the following: “You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them, by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason at least why we should be separated.”
You want to cut Lincoln off in 1862
"There have been men who have proposed to me to return to slavery the black warriors of Port Hudson & Olustee to their masters to conciliate the South. I should be damned in time & in eternity for so doing. The world shall know that I will keep my faith to friends & enemies, come what will. My enemies say I am now carrying on this war for the sole purpose of abolition. It is & will be carried on so long as I am President for the sole purpose of restoring the Union. But no human power can subdue this rebellion without using the Emancipation lever as I have done."
-- August, 1864
LINK
Executive Mansion Washington D.C.
March 13, 1864
Hon. Michael Hahn
My dear Sir:
I congratulate you on having fixed your name in history as the first—free—state Governor of Louisiana. Now you are about to have a Convention which, among other things, will probably define the elective franchise. I barely suggest for your private consideration, whether some of the colored people may not be let in—as, for instance, the very intelligent, and especially those who have fought gallantly in our ranks. They would probably help, in some trying time to come, to keep the jewel of liberty within the family of freedom. But this is only a suggestion, not to the public, but to you alone.
Yours truly
A. LINCOLN"
LINK
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 6:22 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:20 am to WhiskeyPapa
Executive Mansion,
Washington, April 4, 1864.
A.G. Hodges, Esq
Frankfort, Ky.
My dear Sir: You ask me to put in writing the substance of what I verbally said the other day, in your presence, to Governor Bramlette and Senator Dixon. It was about as follows:
"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling. It was in the oath I took that I would, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. I could not take the office without taking the oath. Nor was it my view that I might take an oath to get power, and break the oath in using the power. I understood, too, that in ordinary civil administration this oath even forbade me to practically indulge my primary abstract judgment on the moral question of slavery. I had publicly declared this many times, and in many ways. And I aver that, to this day, I have done no official act in mere deference to my abstract judgment and feeling on slavery. I did understand however, that my oath to preserve the constitution to the best of my ability, imposed upon me the duty of preserving, by every indispensable means, that government -- that nation -- of which that constitution was the organic law. Was it possible to lose the nation, and yet preserve the constitution?
...I add a word which was not in the verbal conversation. In telling this tale I attempt no compliment to my own sagacity. I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me. Now, at the end of three years struggle the nation's condition is not what either party, or any man devised, or expected. God alone can claim it. Whither it is tending seems plain. If God now wills the removal of a great wrong, and wills also that we of the North as well as you of the South, shall pay fairly for our complicity in that wrong, impartial history will find therein new cause to attest and revere the justice and goodness of God. Yours truly,
A. Lincoln
LINK
Washington, April 4, 1864.
A.G. Hodges, Esq
Frankfort, Ky.
My dear Sir: You ask me to put in writing the substance of what I verbally said the other day, in your presence, to Governor Bramlette and Senator Dixon. It was about as follows:
"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling. It was in the oath I took that I would, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. I could not take the office without taking the oath. Nor was it my view that I might take an oath to get power, and break the oath in using the power. I understood, too, that in ordinary civil administration this oath even forbade me to practically indulge my primary abstract judgment on the moral question of slavery. I had publicly declared this many times, and in many ways. And I aver that, to this day, I have done no official act in mere deference to my abstract judgment and feeling on slavery. I did understand however, that my oath to preserve the constitution to the best of my ability, imposed upon me the duty of preserving, by every indispensable means, that government -- that nation -- of which that constitution was the organic law. Was it possible to lose the nation, and yet preserve the constitution?
...I add a word which was not in the verbal conversation. In telling this tale I attempt no compliment to my own sagacity. I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me. Now, at the end of three years struggle the nation's condition is not what either party, or any man devised, or expected. God alone can claim it. Whither it is tending seems plain. If God now wills the removal of a great wrong, and wills also that we of the North as well as you of the South, shall pay fairly for our complicity in that wrong, impartial history will find therein new cause to attest and revere the justice and goodness of God. Yours truly,
A. Lincoln
LINK
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 6:21 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:24 am to WhiskeyPapa
“On the return trip, they passed a brigade of black soldiers, who rushed forward to greet the president, “screaming, yelling, shouting: ‘Hurrah for the Liberator; Hurrah for the President.’ ” Their “spontaneous outburst” moved Lincoln to tears, “and his voice was so broken by emotion” that he could hardly reply.”
? Doris Kearns Goodwin, Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
Those black soldiers knew better than we ever will.
? Doris Kearns Goodwin, Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
Those black soldiers knew better than we ever will.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:24 am to WhiskeyPapa
“On the return trip, they passed a brigade of black soldiers, who rushed forward to greet the president, “screaming, yelling, shouting: ‘Hurrah for the Liberator; Hurrah for the President.’ ” Their “spontaneous outburst” moved Lincoln to tears, “and his voice was so broken by emotion” that he could hardly reply.”
- Doris Kearns Goodwin, Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
Those black soldiers knew better than we ever will.
- Doris Kearns Goodwin, Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
Those black soldiers knew better than we ever will.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 6:25 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:30 am to Mike da Tigah
What a bunch of negationist bullshite.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 6:38 am to montanagator
quote:
Yeah the cause also matters- Rommel was a pretty great general who like Lee was brought low by superior logistics and numbers but you don't see people rocking Afrika Corps regalia or rallying around memorials to the Field Marshal.
Rommel fought a defensive war on German soil? Those dam Jews invaded Germany?
Comparing the two is ridiculous
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:05 am to MorgusTheMagnificent
Liberal Mitch...
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